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Abuse of children under different faiths

This morning I was having one of my regular early morning chats with the family capitalist brother (who likes to chat to me a from his car as he does the morning rounds of his empire) and he was chiding me for not blogging about the recent UN condemnation of the Holy see for not doing more about clerics who sexually abused children. Well I have thought about it and as serious as I think the issue of clerical abuse is I also think that the UN body involved has more than a few axes to grind and as a consequence their criticism is itself somewhat flawed, not that I am saying that any  sexual abuse of children can or should be ignored its just that I can’t help but think that   ANYTHING  that comes out of the UN is dodgy and that we should suspect hidden agendas in almost all cases. Further to some extent I buy the argument that the individual elements of the church have a certain level of individual autonomy that has not been considered or understood by the UN. That said I don’t really want to talk about abuse within the Catholic Church  or even the arguable worse revelations about abuse within boys homes run by the Salvation Army that have been aired in the royal commission recently either. No, my attention today is  on this story as reported in today’s Fairfax press

click for source

click for source

Cue the apologists from the left for anything done in the name of Allah, after all they may argue that Ahmad Chamma, 26 was just being a good and devout Muslim who is following the example of the Prophet in marrying a young  prepubescent girl. It even appears that the man in question has  waited till the girl is older than  was the case with Mohammad and his child bride. But what horrifies me is that this unacceptable situation appears to have been endorsed by his mosque, and despite the disclaimer in the quote above I doubt that there was a lack of consent or even active endorsement of the union  from the girl’s parents either.

Now I’m going to ask you, dear reader, to consider this; which is ethically worse, that individuals with in an religion act counter to its teachings and use their position with its power structure to find, groom, and exploit children or individuals within a religion who follow the example of its founder to exploit and sexually abuse children?

To be frank I don’t think there is much in it between the two, but on balance I tend to think that the latter is worse because it has made such abuse more blatant , “culturally defensible”and more immune to any possibility that the vile practice can be extinguished.

Cue Richard Ryan Comrades

check out the source of these clever cartoons by clicking the image

check out the source of these clever cartoons by clicking the image

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30 Comments

  1. GD says:

    Why is Australia importing people who believe in the archaic religion of Islam? Surely even the leftards must realise that female genital mutilation, subjugation of women, hatred of homosexuals and a refusal to obey the law of the land, ie in favour of sharia ‘law’, is at odds completely with our way of life.

    People with these views have nothing to offer Australia other than a never-ending dependence on Centrelink.

    Enough is enough. Let us be aware of the fate that awaits us should we follow in the footsteps of European nations.

  2. Richard Ryan says:

    “History will label Hitler as one of the really great men of the century as far as the German people are concerned he said Hitler has proved himself a great man and a tireless worker. He dragged his nation from bankruptcy and revolution”—-Sir Robert Menzies. PS. Pity about the Jews, now it’s the Muslims turn. Shalom.

  3. Ray Dixon says:

    GD, why don’t you run your question by the Coalition Govt and see if you’ll get any MP other than Cory Bernardi agreeing with you.

  4. Iain Hall says:

    Richard
    you are wrong on several levels:
    Firstly the comparison that you wish to draw between the European Jews and Muslims is entirely false because the underpinnings of Nazi antisemitism were essentially all lies and fabrications to justify their hatred where as the criticism of Islam is entirely valid and in evidence once you read the Koran and as especially as soon as you look at the well publicized evil deeds done in the name of Allah.
    Secondly you invoke Godwin’s law with your comment.
    Ray
    There may not be many pollies of either persuasion who are as willing as Bernadi to call a spade a spade but that does not mean that he is the only one who understands the problem that an ideology like Islam poses to a modern secular society. Essentially we are obliged to decide just how tolerant we have to be to an inherently supremacist and intolerant faith.

  5. Ray Dixon says:

    Iain, the point is only extremists like Bernardi (and GD) propose outright banning of muslim immigration. Nearly everyone else (conservative & left alike) do not support such discrimination on religious grounds.

    So, to repeat: the point is that GD is a right-wing extremist with views that are not even supported by the conservatives.

    Yet he calls those who disagree “leftards” – go figure.

  6. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    neither GD nor myself are advocating mass deportations of anyone who is a follower of Allah and to be honest I think that you greatly exaggerate when you call GD as “far right”. Do you deny that there have been innumerable acts of violence done in the name of Allah over the last few years? Do you deny that in almost every part of the world where there is a significant level of Muslim immigration that there has been subsequent attempts to change society to suit the whims of Islam with things like requiring Halal or agitating for Sharia law? Do you deny that the Muslim attitude to women and homosexuals is deplorable? Do you deny that in parts of western Sydney that Muslim gangs are responsible for the upsurge in gun violence?

    So please see if you can deny the facts about Islam and if you can’t deny the facts then how can you keep insisting that GD is at all extreme when he lives in the part of Australia that is most densely populated by followers of Allah?

  7. Ray Dixon says:

    Iain, GD’s hypothetical questions are a straight-out call for banning further muslim immigrants. I didn’t suggest he was calling for deportation of existing ones (although I bet he’d like that too) but read his last comment as you wish – to me (and to anyone looking at it objectively), it’s a clear call to ban anyone who follows Islam. It’s ridiculous and extreme to suggest that ALL muslims are violent.

  8. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    the question you have to ask yourself about immigrants is which ones will make the best citizens, which ones will be the best fit into a secular pluralistic Australia, You can’t tell me that Muslims are going to be anywhere need the top of the list.

  9. Ray Dixon says:

    We don’t get to pick and choose immigrants on the basis of people’s ethnicity or religious beliefs. We don’t get to order up a society that is of one particular faith or another – we take all types and it’s for the better (we even take Poms). However, we do bar entry to those with criminal records or terrorist links. It seems to be working.

  10. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    There is no reason at all not to be discerning in who we invite to live in this country and will I agree that being blind to the ethnicity of applicants is entirely reasonable being blind to their adherence to an ideology that is antithetical to all of our secular values is just bonkers. In fact there is nothing special about religion that should make it beyond question when it comes to deciding who can migrate into this country, for instance should we be blind to religions that practice human sacrifice? Should we likewise be blind to religions that practice ritual, drug taking? Would you be happy to see religions that practice marrying prepubescent girls to old men?

  11. GD says:

    GD is a right-wing extremist with views that are not even supported by the conservatives

    Ray you are living in a myopic microcosm of your own imagining.

    Perhaps you should read something not written by the ABC. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of comments on professionally sponsored blogs that belie your belief that the majority of Australians welcome Muslims, and therefore Islam, into our country. These blogs have millions of hits.

    All races yes, Islam, no.

    Cory Bernardi and I aren’t Robinson Crusoe and Man Friday on this issue.

    Islam, as currently practised and preached by the imams in the multitude of mosques in Australia, is incompatible with our culture and society.

  12. GD says:

    And as Bolta points out:

    Remember how Liberal Senator Cory Bernardi’s new book, The Conservative Revolution, was vilified by the Left and even some Liberals? Remember how Leftists, egged on by Fairfax, bombarded Amazon with “reviews” damning it. I am delighted to report that the Amazon campaign actually backfired, causing sales via Amazon to soar. The book is already long in reprint and has reached best-seller status for a political tome.

  13. Ray Dixon says:

    There are hundreds, if not thousands, of comments on professionally sponsored blogs that belie your belief that the majority of Australians welcome Muslims, and therefore Islam, into our country. These blogs have millions of hits.

    That is the funniest “here’s the proof” statement I’ve ever read. LMAO.

  14. Iain Hall says:

    Ray you rather pointedly ignored my comment so how about this report:

    Shame of our child brides: Court hears how woman was raped and beaten as it’s revealed hundreds are forced into arranged and unregistered marriages across NSW

    Exclusive by Padraic Murphy

    A 14-YEAR-OLD girl was forced into an Islamic marriage with a western Sydney drug gang member who raped and beat her and later physically abused their daughter.

    Details of the now 25-year old victim’s ordeal surfaced in the Federal Circuit Court where the victim was fighting to have the man banned from seeing their daughter.

    So appalling was the woman’s life of abuse, which included claims that her father told her she could only leave her marriage “in a coffin”, that Judge Joseph Harman made an unprecedented public appeal in his judgment for authorities to act.

    The story came to light after the Daily Telegraph reported the arrest of a man who had been living with a 12-year-old as his wife in Sydney.

    The imam who married the pair, Riaz Tasawar, was yesterday arrested by police.

    IMAM ‘SACKED’ BY MOSQUE

    “Upon publication of these reasons and should any agency wish to investigate matters … they are in a position to make application to the court for leave to inspect the file and obtain material,” he said.

    That would include the child dispute conference memo in which an admission is made by the father in the following terms: “The father admitted that he knew at the time of the Islamic marriage to the mother that she was 14 years of age.”

    This Sydney woman spoke out last year after being married off as a child bride.

    This Sydney woman spoke out last year after being married off as a child bride. Source: News Limited

    The memo noted the man said he was 18 at the time, but the victim claimed he was 21.

    “The mother alleged that the father had sexually assaulted her after they were married, which the father denied,” said Judge Harman.

    It was also alleged the man, who has a string of violence convictions, stopped the victim from attending high school or watching television, and wanted her to become a “soldier of Islam”, forcing her to watch snuff DVDs of people being brutally slaughtered.

    When she complained to her parents about the rapes and violence, her father threatened to disown her. “So what if he raped you? So what if he bashed you?” the father said, according to court documents.

    “The only way you can come back to me is in a coffin to pray on you.”


    The girl also told a teacher at her high school about both her underage marriage and the abuse, but no action was taken.

    It is believed no authority has asked to inspect the file since Judge Harman’s appeal, leading to fears both the victim’s family and her “husband” could escape punishment.

    TERRIFYING EPIDEMIC OF CHILD BRIDES

    Exclusive by Alicia Woods

    HUNDREDS of underage teenagers are living in unregistered defacto marriages in NSW — and pressure is mounting for state and federal authorities to investigate illegal unions.

    The statistics came as NSW Women’s Minister Pru Goward urged anyone with information on girls under the age of consent being married off to older men to report such incidents. In NSW, three children aged 14, 30 children aged 15, 152 aged 16 and 483 aged 17 identified themselves as living in a defacto marriage in the 2011 census.

    Adolescent psychologist Dr Michael Carr-Gregg warned last night that defacto relationships involving teenage girls were detrimental to their psychological health.

    “There’s an increased likelihood of these young people developing anxiety and mood disorders or depression,” he said. “I wouldn’t be surprised if some of these kids become potentially suicidal.”

    In metropolitan Sydney, the local government areas with the highest number of unregistered teenage defacto marriages are Blacktown and Penrith, with 23 each, Campbelltown with 17, and Liverpool with 12.

    In Blacktown, there were seven 16-year-olds and 16 children aged 17 who identified themselves as living in a defacto marriage.

    In Penrith, six 15-year-olds, five 16-year-olds and 12 17-year-olds said they were in a defacto marriage.

    In regional areas, the problem is more stark. In Wyong, Wollongong and Dubbo, six 15-year-olds in each local government area said they were in defacto marriages, and all three 14-year-olds who said they were defacto marriages live in Young.

    The figures come to light amid intense public outrage at the arrest of a 26-year-old man over child sex allegations after his alleged marriage to a 12-year-old girl.

    Eman Sharobeem from the Immigrant Women’s Health Service said hundreds of children as young as 11 were being sent overseas to be married after being “shopped” on Facebook. “It’s far more prevalent and well-known than people think,” she said.

    Dr Sharobeem said not enough was being done to build awareness about underage marriage. “Regulation needs to be put in place within different religions,” she said. “If we are talking about Australian law, every marriage should be under Australian law,”

    “There needs to be proper, culturally appropriate, education and awareness-raising. And we should make it as compulsory as we can.”
    Imam Riaz Tasawar, who married a 12-year-old girl and 26-year-old man.

    Imam Riaz Tasawar, who married a 12-year-old girl and 26-year-old man. Source: No Source
    Ms Goward has written to federal counterpart Michaelia Cash to push for national awareness campaigns on underage and forced marriage.

    “Every young girl in NSW should have the opportunity to make her own choices about her future, and underage marriage is completely unacceptable,” Ms Goward said.

    “It doesn’t matter if the arrangement is religious or cultural, if the law in this state says it is illegal, parents and the community need to accept that and abide by it.

    “We can only investigate a case if it is reported, so I encourage anyone aware of girls under the age of consent being married off to older men to report it to authorities so it can be investigated.”

    Opposition community services spokeswoman Linda Burney said the government should investigate how widespread underage marriage is.“We seemingly don’t have a picture of how widespread this type of behaviour is,” she said. Ms Burney said

    The legal marrying age in Australia is 18 unless a court approves a union where one party is aged between 16 and 18.

  15. Ray Dixon says:

    I didn’t “ignore” your comment, Iain, I just didn’t want to risk offending you by pointing out the lack of logic in it. But if you insist:

    there is nothing special about religion that should make it beyond question when it comes to deciding who can migrate into this country, for instance should we be blind to religions that practice human sacrifice? Should we likewise be blind to religions that practice ritual, drug taking? Would you be happy to see religions that practice marrying prepubescent girls to old men?

    No, we shouldn’t be blind to INDIVIDUALS who have done those things. And we are not. Any INDIVIDUAL seeking entry into Australia who has a criminal record is barred. But you cannot bar someone just because some others who follow their religion have commited such acts.

    As for your recent comment, that is cherry-picking sensationalism, Iain. There are many examples of child abuse among our society in general, and no eveidence – NONE WHATSOEVER – that child abuse is more prevalent in muslim families than all others.

  16. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    We have shared a long enough electric journey that I would never be offended by you disagreeing with me.

    No, we shouldn’t be blind to INDIVIDUALS who have done those things. And we are not. Any INDIVIDUAL seeking entry into Australia who has a criminal record is barred. But you cannot bar someone just because some others who follow their religion have committed such acts.

    As I see it if someone ticks the “Muslim” box on an immigration questionnaire then at the very least they should be more closely scrutinized about their attitudes to women and homosexuals, they should be quizzed about their understanding of our laws about the age of consent,thus there might be a chance that some of the less desirable individuals will be excluded form this country.

    As for your recent comment, that is cherry-picking sensationalism, Iain. There are many examples of child abuse among our society in general, and no evidence – NONE WHATSOEVER – that child abuse is more prevalent in Muslim families than all others.

    The point is that this sort of child abuse is endorsed by the religion and is an aspect of Arabic culture that we should not under any circumstances accept The thing is we are currently having a royal commission about largely historical systemic abuse by various Christian organisations and the significant difference is that Christian abusers are all acting against the tenets of the faith where as these Muslim abusers are following the example of the Prophet.

  17. Ray Dixon says:

    The “Prophet” may have said (many moons ago) that those things are okay, but until and unless the follower/immigration applicant actually commits a criminal act you cannot bar them for simply being of the same faith. As far as I know, immgrants ARE tested on their knowledge of Australian laws and customs as part of the process, but you cannot say

    “Hey, that religion you’re part of endorses child marriage, is homophobic, etc, etc, so guess what? – we don’t trust you to obey our laws so you can go and eff-off back to Arab land”.

    That is essentially what you’re advocating, Iain.

  18. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    The realist in me knows that entirely banning Muslims will not happen so instead I aM advocating that those we do allow should be obliged to demonstrate that they do not personally subscribe to the more pernicious aspects of the faith, especially before they are allowed to become citizens.

  19. Ray Dixon says:

    I think they are informed of our laws and questioned on them, Iain. As part of the process. Whether or not they “subscribe” to all aspects of the faith is impossible to demonstrate or test.

  20. GD says:

    Ray said:

    I think they are informed of our laws and questioned on them

    You ‘think’ they are? Well it’s not working out as you ‘think’.

    Unemployment rates in Muslim suburbs (I never thought I’d be writing that) in Western Sydney are almost twice the national average, as I previously showed you.

    African-Somali crime in Melbourne is five times that of the wider community.

    And you ‘think’ our immigration department is successfully ‘informing and questioning’ new immigrants and refugees?

    It won’t hurt you in your white picket fence town, however further down the track younger generations will have to deal with this influx of third world refugees who are quick to take advantage of our Centrelink payments, yet unwilling to adapt to our way of life.

  21. Ray Dixon says:

    It’s bad luck for you then, GD, that no Govt (Liberal or Labor) will support your call for a severe cut back – if not outright ban – on muslim immigrants. Whatchya gonna do? As I see it you have the following options:

    1. Move to a new town (don’t try Bright, we have muslims too).
    2. Emigrate to somewhere like New Zealand (you’ll need to adapt to their “way of life” though, so go practice on some sheep first and learn to pronounce “six” as “sex” and “deck” as “dick”).
    3. Start up a new politcal party ‘No Mussies For Oz’ and see if you can win Government. Good luck with that.
    4. Buy a gun, heaps of tinned food and other provisions, fortify your home and never leave. Don’t forget to stock up on booze.

    Alternatively, you could just stop all the pissing, moaning & bellyaching about muslims and realise that people from different backgrounds and cultures always take a long time to assimilate into our “way of life” (as you put it). It can take decades and/or generations in fact, but it does happen. Look at the Poms, they’ve finally started to wash!

  22. GD says:

    Of course, Ray, you’re right. Nothing to see here. Our refugee and immigration policies are in good hands. How silly of me to doubt.

    Those muslims in Bright? How many are working?

    In the fifties and sixties immigrants and refugees worked. There was no welfare.

    Big difference. Huge difference, but of course you can’t see that behind your white picket fence lifestyle with a couple of token muslims. (Which I doubt)

  23. Ray Dixon says:

    Our refugee and immigration policies are in good hands. How silly of me to doubt.

    They’re in the hands of your precious Coalition Govt, GD. You know, the ones you voted for. So if you’re unhappy about them write to your local member (is it Fiona the Fantastic?) or take up option 3 and start your own party.

    As for your assertion that muslims are bludging welfare recipients who don’t and won’t work, that’s unsupported by the facts. Of course you’ll dig up something to support your contention but it’ll be biased and not nationally representative. As for the immigrants of the 50s & 60s it’s a fact that more than a quarter of them did not work.

  24. Richard Ryan says:

    Why Not? Euthanasia for children, we have abortion for the unborn children,which always proves fatal.

  25. Richard Ryan says:

    And just think of the savings on the Health services, when all these human resources are put to sleep. GD would be happy with that.

  26. Richard Ryan says:

    Speaking of sheep, my first girlfriends name was baa-bar-raa, and she use to sing to me, there will never be anyone like ‘yew’ . baaaaaaaaaaaaa.

  27. GD says:

    hey, Richard, have you bought your tickets for this, it looks like it will be a hoot! And right up your alley.

  28. GD says:

    Ray blustered:

    As for your assertion that muslims are bludging welfare recipients who don’t and won’t work, that’s unsupported by the facts

    And your links or citations for those ‘facts’ are?

  29. Ray Dixon says:

    Oh for God’s sake, GD, you have not supplied any “facts” to back up your assertion that Muslim immigrants are bigger bludgers than the rest of us. And your claim that “Unemployment rates in Muslim suburbs in Western Sydney are almost twice the national average” is not supported (here) by any links and, in any case, is cherry picking in the extreme. Of course muslim unemployment is higher in suburbs where they are more concentrated, but you need wider examples than that to back up your biased assertions. You ask me for “links & citations” to back up my claim that YOU have not supplied any supporting facts? Huh? Are you out of your head? Read this thread – that’s my “link & citation”. You’re using very twisted logic my friend.

  30. […] bit better than its European precursors but then again they don’t have much to say about followers of Islam who take the life of the Prophet as their template to “marry” pre-pub… do they? Hmm maybe they are not that much better after […]

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