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Home » Ethical questions » “Asylum seekers” illegal immigrants and personal responsibilty for their fate.

“Asylum seekers” illegal immigrants and personal responsibilty for their fate.

When it comes to the politics of blame you have to hand it to “Asylum seekers”  illegal immigrants for the utter gall of blaming Australia for their plight.

Residents help survivors of the boat that sank off the coastal village of Cianjur in Java. Photograph: AFP

Residents help survivors of the boat that sank off the coastal village of Cianjur in Java. Photograph: AFP

“I called the Australian embassy; for 24 hours we were calling them. They told us just send us the position on GPS, where are you,” one survivor, Abdullah, a man from Jordan, was reported as saying by Fairfax media. “We did, and they told us, ‘OK, we know … where you are’. And they said, ‘We’ll come for you in two hours’.

“And we wait two hours; we wait 24 hours, and we kept calling them, ‘we don’t have food, we don’t have water for three days, we have children, just rescue us’. And nobody come. Sixty person dead now because of Australian government.”

One of the passengers, a Lebanese man, had reportedly lost his pregnant wife and eight children in the disaster.

Just 25 of those aboard had been rescued before efforts to locate survivors were postponed on Friday evening due to failing light.

It’s believed to be the first fatal attempted asylum-seeker crossing under the Abbott government, and comes after another group of 44 asylum seekers were rescued by an Australian navy vessel in the Sunda Strait on Thursday.

source

Just to be clear these people set out from Indonesia in an overloaded crappy boat and it founders in Indonesian waters a long way from either international waters or Australia’s rescue zone and we are to blame for the subsequent drownings? Man oh man the leftist mindset is just utterly fucked. Whatever happened to to taking personal responsibility for the consequences of ones actions?
No one forced them onto the high seas in an unsuitable and unreliable vessel that was their own choice and a very stupid one indeed given the change of government and the change of policy that means that they will never get permanent residency in this country.

Personally I can not for the life of me understand why it is the case that Indonesia does not station more of its own navy assets in the area given the number of “Asylum seekers” illegal emigrants that foolishly go for “pleasure cruises” in this part of their rescue zone. Frankly their failure to do so shows that they are the ones who don’t care. Meanwhile our navy is doing the heavy lifting by pulling the bodies ,alive and dead, from Indonesian waters as the “Asylum seekers” illegal immigrants treat them like some kind of free taxi service.

The solution is simple we should move our navy assets out of the area and make that repositioning so they are well out of range very widely known. If needs be lets give a patrol boat to Indonesia so that they can rescue the idiots who are killing their own children * and then blaming us and then the question of where to take those rescued fools will be moot.

Sigh Comrades

LifeJackets

* how is it that these“Asylum seekers” illegal immigrants can afford to pay people smugglers yet they don’t have the good sense to buy life jackets for their children?

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19 Comments

  1. deknarf says:

    Hmmm! Don’t know where the leftist mindset comes from in your comments Iain — the conservative dogma perhaps?

    Have to agree with you however that blaming the Australian government is a bit of a stretch!

    By the way: Don’t fall into Yale’s rather silly habit of cross outs/renames — it’s kinda puerile. At least call a spade a spade!

    PS: Am recovering slowly from the trauma of Sept 7 and happy to see that Tony ‘Jubya’ Abbott and his NO Coalition of Howard has-beens are behaving exactly as anticipated! At least we can take some consolation in that, eh? ;-))

  2. Iain Hall says:

    Glad that we can find some common ground Deknarf.
    As for the cross out stuff it can work if used sparingly.

  3. James says:

    Listening to ABC radio this morning it was disgusting to hear some goose who was heading up a pro Asylum Seeker rally in Sydney, blaming Tony Abbott, The Australian Government and, this really grated, the Australian people for allowing this boat to sink and people lose their lives. What in the hell?

    Survivors from an asylum seeker boat that sank off Indonesia say the boat returned to land after it hit trouble in rough seas and sank only 50 metres from the shore.

    ABC

    So it’s all our fault is it? Last week you’ve got the Indonesian Foreign Minister and other Indonesian politicians saying Australia should stay out of these boat people events, yet here we had an event that was 50 metres off Indonesian soil, well and truly inside Indonesian territorial waters and they, the Indonesian Government scream out for Australian Navy help. Who said you can’t have it both ways?

    It’s clear that the Indonesians are taking absolutely no responsibility for their nationals who are providing boats, skippers (if you could call them that) and crews to sail into Australian territorial waters with their illegal cargos. The Indonesians are clearly allowing this trade to flourish, no doubt with kick-backs to people in high places.

    These illegals travel through various counties to get to Indonesia en-route to their desired destination of Australia. They pay big bucks under the table for illegal passage and as far as Indonesia are concerned we should just sit back and accept this as our problem. Well this mud rat says no way.

    We plough millions of dollars in so called aid to Indonesia, we’ve given them numerous ex-Australian Navy patrol boats, why, so they can rust away in port and not be put to use for the purpose they were provided for.

    We are being played for suckers all round and enough is enough.

    We have to stand firm and stand up for our Countries rights and to hell with Indonesia. And as for the soft heads in Australia who side with the Indonesians. take away their dole payments and make them get real jobs.

  4. Tad Vinda (B. Bus) says:

    how about we have two frigates patrolling the timor sea just outside indonesian territorial waters, once these queue jumping ragheads cross over into international waters, our ships point their artillery and someone on a loudspeaker (in arabic of course) says “proceed at your own peril”. the message would get through very quickly to people smugglers and their customers that australia is no longer a soft touch governed by leftist idiots and anyone who comes here illegally either gets detained or dead.

  5. deknarf says:

    When I see repeated cross out stuff I always get the feeling that I’m being treated like I’m brain dead. One reason why I never use it!

  6. Iain Hall says:

    Tad
    while I don’t think that we are obliged to take all who seek to come here I do think that to act the way that you suggest would neither solve the problem no would it be good for our souls. Far better to proceed as the government is heading and use a broad spectrum approach that is primarily based upon denying all mendicants the permanent residency that they are so clearly seeking than to use violent methods that would contravene the laws of the sea.

  7. Tony says:

    Hey guys, but, weren’t they still in Indonesian waters when they went down ?
    And Australia got the blame for it ?
    How does that work?

  8. James says:

    Yes Tony as I highlighted above, 50 meters off Indo soil.. And yep we get the blame. The Indonesians just want them out of their back-yard and off there hands simple as that. Yet they hand out entry Visas like candy to allow them into Indonesia in the first place, knowing they will want to move on towards Australia when they see the shit hole they find themselves in.

  9. GD says:

    * how is it that these“Asylum seekers” illegal immigrants can afford to pay people smugglers yet they don’t have the good sense to buy life jackets for their children?

    It doesn’t make sense, Iain, and neither does the Left’s demonising of the Abbott government for this tragedy.

    The ABC, once again displaying its left wing bias, is happy to trot out this story, while ignoring the fact that they (the ABC) stopped reporting boat arrivals and drowning deaths over a year ago and have only now begun reporting such events since the Liberals won the election.

    The ABC also failed to report that the Abbott government turned back two boats. They preferred instead to focus on a failed asylum-seeking attempt which was well within Indonesian territory.

    Just whose side is the ABC on?

    Clearly not Australia’s.

  10. James says:

    Well here’s a story that has surfaced this morning which re-enforces one of my earlier posts about this and the involvement of Indonesian officials;

    Indonesia military implicated in deaths of asylum seekers as Scott Morrison rejects survivors’ claims

    Members of the Indonesian military have been implicated in a fatal people-smuggling operation that may have killed up to 30 children.

    The asylum seeker boat got into trouble last week and broke into pieces just off the south Java coast.

    Those who did survive are helping Indonesian and Australian investigators to identify the people responsible.

    The names of two key smugglers have emerged: Abu Saleh and another man called Abu Ali.

    And embarrassingly, local authorities have again been implicated as playing a key role in getting the passengers to the boat.

    Survivors said Indonesian soldiers helped ferry them to the coast where the doomed boat was waiting.

    “The army took us,” one survivor said.

    “The army was driving the cars.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-29/indonesia-military-implicated-in-deaths-of-asylum-seekers/4987772

    This you would have to give strength to the Governments policy for turning back the boats, and it’s something the Indonesians should take on board during discussions this week!

  11. Iain Hall says:

    GD
    My understanding was that our navy did not so much turn back boats but rescued two boat loads of asylum seekers in Indonesia’s rescue zone and had the courage to take them back to Indonesia straight away. Its a significant development and one that Indonesia really can not complain about

  12. James says:

    Found this interesting from Alexander Downer too.

    A COUPLE of weeks ago I was at dinner with a very senior Singaporean official and asked him a simple question. Why is it that people-smugglers don’t try to send people to rich and happy Singapore from nearby Indonesian islands? His answer was simple.

    “If they come to Singapore we just send them straight back to Indonesia,” he said.

    The principle is simple. Yet we are having a diplomatic stoush with Indonesia because their boats crewed by their people sailing from their ports are transgressing our territorial waters and landing on Australian territory and the Indonesians object to us sending them back.

    Frankly, it’s a shame we haven’t found a simple and effective way of managing this issue to the satisfaction of Australia and Indonesia. The deaths of 22 people trying to sail to Australia late last week was a reminder that this grisly trade has to stop.

    There have been faults on both sides. The Australian government made a catastrophic mistake dismantling all the measures taken to close down this trade in the early 2000s. The Indonesians have made a mistake by telling Kevin Rudd this year that all they would do was convene an international conference on people-smuggling and not much else.

    So this week Tony Abbott and Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono have to try to work out a new arrangement. I’ve proposed on several occasions that Australia and Indonesia could do a deal: Australia would fly back to Indonesia anyone who arrived here by boat without a visa. In exchange, Australia would take, one for one, UNHCR approved refugees from refugee camps in Indonesia. This would stop the boats almost overnight.

    The alternative will be turning back the boats. The Indonesians don’t like that but the boats are theirs, have their crews and come from their ports. They can hardly complain that we are sending their boats back to Indonesia – their home. This issue needs to be settled and fast. It, along with the absurd live cattle ban, has dominated the Australian Indonesian relationship for the past five years. We need to move on and we need to do so while Yudhoyono is still in power. He only has one year of his fixed term left.

    He’s right with what he says, just common sense really.

  13. Iain Hall says:

    That is an interesting Bon Mott about how Singapore deals with boats form Indonesia and suggests that their is perhaps more than a bit of racism in their attitude to Australia wanting to do precisely the same thing.

  14. Ray Dixon says:

    The Singapore example is a furphy. It was a hypothetical question and if you read it correctly Downer asked: “Why is it that people-smugglers don’t try to send people to rich and happy Singapore”. In other words, he’s acknowledging that Singapore has not had the same experience as Australia and that asylum seekers don’t want to go there in the first place. And think about it – have you been to Singapore? It’s a tiny island and overcrowded already – no wonder they can’t take more people. It was a ludicrous comparison by Downer.

    As for Indonesia, I agree their attitude seems to be a bit one-sided but you have to see it from their perspective. They have a population of over 1 billion people spread over 1,000 small islands and the majority still live in poverty, third world conditions. They see Australia as a vast underpopulated land with plenty of capacity to take the comparatively small numbers who get on boats. 45,000 people over the last 5 years is small fry from their perspective. You won’t change that mindset and confronting Indonesia like Downer is doing is not going to get anywhere.

  15. Ray Dixon says:

    GD, your demonising of the ABC is what doesn’t make sense. I don’t recall the ABC not reporting boat arrivals & drownings over the past year and if you scroll up you’ll see a link to an ABC report (provided by James) describing allegations of the Indonesian military being involved in people smuggling. That hardly fits with your ‘The ABC is demonising the Coalition Govt’ argument. Take the blinkers off.

  16. Tony says:

    As for Indonesia, I agree their attitude seems to be a bit one-sided but you have to see it from their perspective. They have a population of over 1 billion people spread over 1,000 small islands and the majority still live in poverty, third world conditions.

    Sorry Ray, but the population of Indonesia has been estimated at only 248 239 548 as of today ?
    http://countrymeters.info/en/Indonesia/

    Don’t know where you got the one billion from ?

    Regardless of that error, I agree with you, that the country itself is a poor one, with very little industry, commerce, and really, no matter the rhetoric coming from Djakarta, is nothing more than a third world country, reliant on the rest of us, for it’s very economical survival.
    Under those circumstances, not us, but the UN has to go in there and sort the situation out, but as has been proven many times, in recent history, they haven’t got the guts, as the regime in Djakarta won’t allow them entry ?

    That is the government in Canberra’s problem.
    Indonesian crooks will continue to sell them dishevelled boats, fuel them up, and send them our way.
    In reality, if they won’t turn back on their own, or Indonesia refuses to give them temporary refuge whilst they plan these death trips, there is absolutely nothing Australia can do, but suck it up.

    The only thing we can do, is go to the source. We all know that won’t happen. The US has tried that with the inevitable failures ?

  17. Ray Dixon says:

    I will actually pay that one, James. In fact I’ll fix it for you so the photo displays.

  18. Iain Hall says:

    Yeah me to James that is a real hoot! and sadly so true of the inappropriate apportioning of blame on these tragedies

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