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Home » God bothering » How many blood soaked shopping trolleys will it take before the penny will drop on the obvious?

How many blood soaked shopping trolleys will it take before the penny will drop on the obvious?

There can be few people in this country who have not heard about the still ongoing atrocity in Nairobi as followers of that  so called “religion of peace” murder innocent shoppers  in what is just another in the very long line of attempts at intimidation and religious brutality. Kenya is of course a soft target with a police service and military that is not well versed in the problem or the best ways to quickly bring the Muslim scum-bags the “glorious” death that they dream of.

She heard the first grenade go off and said, ‘What was that, dad?’," her mother Linda told the station. "Then he heard the guns firing and he knew exactly what it was and he said, ‘We’re under attack, everybody to the back of the room'." The 23-year-old from Eltham, who is reportedly the ex-partner of Carlton captain Marc Murphy, spent six hours trapped in the store before she could run to safety. In addition to the 68 people killed, who included women and children, 205 people were wounded. Government officials said the wounded ranged in age from two to 78. Kenyan commandos cornered several of the assailants on the third floor of the mall, and as of Sunday night they were still reportedly holding hostages, more than 18 hours after the attack began (about 8pm AEST on Saturday). Western officials said they expected the assailants would fight to the death, although the Kenyan news media reported one wounded gunman had been captured but later died in hospital. Several witnesses said one of the assailants was a woman. As the police cleared sections of the mall, terrified shoppers emerged with their hands up and collapsed in each other's arms. Victims soaked in their own blood were wheeled out in shopping trolleys. Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/australian-killed-in-nairobi-mall-as-death-toll-rises-and-standoff-continues-20130922-2u7nv.html#ixzz2ffQCDBHG

 attack, everybody to the back of the room’.”
The 23-year-old from Eltham, who is reportedly the ex-partner of Carlton captain Marc Murphy, spent six hours trapped in the store before she could run to safety.
In addition to the 68 people killed, who included women and children, 205 people were wounded. Government officials said the wounded ranged in age from two to 78.
Kenyan commandos cornered several of the assailants on the third floor of the mall, and as of Sunday night they were still reportedly holding hostages, more than 18 hours after the attack began (about 8pm AEST on Saturday).
Western officials said they expected the assailants would fight to the death, although the Kenyan news media reported one wounded gunman had been captured but later died in hospital. Several witnesses said one of the assailants was a woman.
As the police cleared sections of the mall, terrified shoppers emerged with their hands up and collapsed in each other’s arms. Victims soaked in their own blood were wheeled out in shopping trolleys.
Click for source

Yet time and time again the apologists for Islam will denounce the decent people like yours truly or our own esteemed GD for being overtly critical of Islam. When its clear that the object before us is a digging implement then lets just admit that its a bloody shovel and not pretend that only some of them are used to dig graves.

How many blood soaked shopping trolleys will it take before the penny will drop on the obvious? The problem is Islam, its a bigoted intolerant faith that has at its core the instruction for its followers to convert or kill all unbelievers until the entire planet is under the heal of its totalitarian ideology. We would not dream of importing Neo-Nazis and allowing them to become Australians so they could create the Fourth Reich down-under chapter, yet the Luvvies would have us import followers of Islam by the boat load. Frankly if anyone actively subscribes to an ideology that endorses the ongoing atrocity in Nairobi then they should have no place in this country. End of story.

Righteously  angry  about this  Comrades

NoSharia-NoJihad

 

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154 Comments

  1. Ray Dixon says:

    We would not dream of importing Neo-Nazis and allowing them to become Australians so they could create the Fourth Reich down-under chapter, yet the Luvvies would have us import followers of Islam by the boat load. Frankly if anyone actively subscribes to an ideology that endorses the ongoing atrocity in Nairobi then they should have no place in this country. End of story.

    Iain, that is a straight out and blatant call for a blanket ban on all muslim immigrants. It’s real low level Hansonism – a kneejerk and scaremongering reaction that shows no rational thought or intelligence, only fear.

    On the same basis we should also ban all American immigrants, as that country subscribes to an equally vile culture of ‘the right to bear arms’, enshrined in their constitution. And that belief allows nutters to commit similar atrocities to the one in Kenya on a regular basis – about every week. Here’s how it would read (in your words):

    Frankly if anyone actively subscribes to an ideology that endorses the ongoing atrocities in the USA then they should have no place in this country. End of story.

    And which side of politics exactly do you think might take up your radical suggestion that we become the first nation in the western world to ban people on the basis of their religious beliefs? Do you think your hero Tony Abbott or his sidekick Immigration Minister Morrison would even give you the time of day? Come on, Iain, get out of the muslim-bashing gutter and leave that territory to other more anonymous haters like GD. You can be better than this.

  2. James says:

    Mr Dixon, here’s a suggestion for you…. if you want to see these people settled in Australia, breeding a future generation of terrorists, why don’t you provide the accommodation for them, and see just how long you could put up with them.

    I’m sick to death of hearing how we have to accept them here, accept them into our neighbourhoods. I don’t want them, can’t make that any clearer.

    Look what happened in France, tried to do what was the right thing, humanitarian etc. accepted thousands upon thousands of the Islamics and found they had one hell of a mess. Now France is trying to correct the situation they have found themselves in.

    They proclaim Islam is the religion of peace, yet all over the world where ever these people are congregating suddenly there is trouble afoot.

    Have a read of this item from the Gold Coasts newspaper just a week ago. We were there several months ago and couldn’t get out of there quick enough….

    The Islamisation of the Gold Coast – by 2023 One in 3 people living to the Gold Coast could be Muslim

    At current birth rates there could be 250,000 Muslims living on the Gold Coast by 2023.

    THE Gold Coast Islamic community is experiencing a baby boom and needs more mosques.

    Religious leaders say there are between 6000 to 8000 Muslims on the Gold Coast, up as much as 4000 from the last Census in 2011.

    The unprecedented growth is thanks to a high birth rate, not migration, with second generation Gold Coast families producing more children.

    Leaders from the Islamic Society of Gold Coast say that the community’s only mosque at Arundel is at capacity.

    It operates daily from 5am to 9pm and takes in 1200 people each Friday for the community’s main prayers, with prayers held five times a day.

    The mosque is also a meeting place, is equipped with the burial material for funerals, is the venue for weddings and festivals and hosts 15 school tours annually.

    …Imam Imraan Husain — the Gold Coast Mosque leader — said Muslims born here were now having their own families.

    “In the eight years I have been here, I have never done so many rites of passage birthing rituals,” said Imam Imraan Husain.

    Assuming the birth rate remains constant, the local Gold Coast Muslim population would double every two years and by 2023, 1 in three people living on the Gold Coast would be Muslim. The consequences are huge – as night turns to day, creeping Islamism would eventually replace forever our unique Gold Coast way of life.

    Islam never co-exists – it takes over. Just look at the Muslim enclaves in France – the French Gov’t actually has a dedicated website showing 750 sensitive urban areas that non-Muslims should not go to; this includes emergency services – Police, Fire and Ambulance.

    Islam’s sole goal is to spread Sharia Law into all aspects of civil life everywhere and it begins by growing their population base faster than non-Muslims. Just look at certain parts of the UK these days. All it takes is for a few Muslim local councillors to be voted in and then slowly, but purposefully, creeping Sharia invades our community. Take your pick at what happens next – Woman only swimming days at your local council pool, our traditional beach wear – the bikini – gets banned, you no longer can walk your dog along the park at Kurrawa beach, or your wife and daughter(s) can only go out in public if they are covered up in a burka – I could go on and on – just know that where Islamism spreads…your freedom Dies and I don’t want the city which I live in to become another Muslim enclave.

    And the last thing the Gold Coast needs is more Jihad factories, places where Islamic radicals spread and indoctrinate their hate.

    And if anyone calls me an Islamophobe, I don’t worry – I’m in good company.

  3. Tony says:

    When will the powers-that-be finally have the balls to call this ‘religion’ for what it is ?
    It’s a cult nothing more, nothing less.
    As James directs, their only aim, is the complete takeover of the planet. Got news for them, whilst ever there is one man, left standing, with the balls to stand up to these tossers, then we have a chance.

    As for immigrants destined for Australia ?
    Remember, before spreading your dribble, you have signed a declaration, upon entry, that you abide by Australian Law. Not Sharia Law, but Australian Law !

    They have destroyed their own countries, and now they are looking further a field for more bounty ?
    Reminds me of the stories King Arthur and the Crusades ?
    All we have to do, is collectively, stand up, and say no, not here kids.
    There is the plane, go, and take your stand over tactics, wars and violence with you !
    If they don’t go, or want to play by our collective rules ?
    Put a shotgun up thir heiny and pull the trigger !
    Call me a racist if you like (enter Ray), but this is a great country, and we have, over the generations have fought our butts off, for a whole lot less ?

  4. Iain Hall says:

    We would not dream of importing Neo-Nazis and allowing them to become Australians so they could create the Fourth Reich down-under chapter, yet the Luvvies would have us import followers of Islam by the boat load. Frankly if anyone actively subscribes to an ideology that endorses the ongoing atrocity in Nairobi then they should have no place in this country. End of story.

    Iain, that is a straight out and blatant call for a blanket ban on all muslim immigrants. It’s real low level Hansonism – a kneejerk and scaremongering reaction that shows no rational thought or intelligence, only fear.

    Its really simple my friend, not all Muslims are the benign fellows as you seem to imagine them and the malignancy is inherent in the teachings of that faith. Now if there was some simple way to discern which Muslims subscribe to or endorse the so called extremists then I would be far more willing to offer the benefit of the doubt. But the experience of recent years suggests that there is only one common factor with Islamic acts of terror and that is that all are committed by the devout adherents to the faith of Mohamand

    On the same basis we should also ban all American immigrants, as that country subscribes to an equally vile culture of ‘the right to bear arms’, enshrined in their constitution. And that belief allows nutters to commit similar atrocities to the one in Kenya on a regular basis – about every week. Here’s how it would read (in your words):

    Frankly if anyone actively subscribes to an ideology that endorses the ongoing atrocities in the USA then they should have no place in this country. End of story.

    Well as I am an advocate for essentially ZERO immigration I would have no problems with banning all comers, that said though you are drawing a very long bow here because we are not talking about an entire nation here , rather we are talking about a tarns-national religion actively encourages killing in the name of their God. Its a bit different from the odd individual who goes on a bonkers killing spree.

    And which side of politics exactly do you think might take up your radical suggestion that we become the first nation in the western world to ban people on the basis of their religious beliefs? Do you think your hero Tony Abbott or his sidekick Immigration Minister Morrison would even give you the time of day? Come on, Iain, get out of the muslim-bashing gutter and leave that territory to other more anonymous haters like GD. You can be better than this.

    Ray I am life long atheist, I am incredibly tolerant of all sorts of silly beliefs and I even feel some affinity to the truly spiritual in our all too brief lives BUT its not an act of hatred to call Islamists out for the atrocities they commit in the name of their god.

  5. Ray Dixon says:

    I won’t bother responding to most of your comment, Iain, which was largely generic rhetoric (although for you in particular – an immigrant yourself – to suggest ZERO IMMIGRATION full stop is rather hypocritical, not to mention absurd), but the question remains:

    How do you propose we ban muslim immigrants and/or the muslim religion in Australia?

    Explain please, in basic steps, the following:

    How would this work?

    Do you propose deportation of existing immigrants even though they’re already citizens?

    What about their children, Iain, the ones born here?

    Do you propose genocide, jail, sterilisation or deportation for existing Australian muslims?

    And finally, which political party do you propose we elect to enforce these radical steps? It certainly won’t be the Coalition, so I guess you’ve got some new group in mind.

    Who is it you see as your saviour of Australian culture, Iain?

    Come on, face up to the realities and answer the specific questions.

  6. Ray Dixon says:

    And this comment I made earlier (under the other post) I’ll move here. It’s in response to James:

    You’re right, Richard, that diatribe by James is hardly worth responding to. Not only does he want to ban muslim immigrants and the muslim religion in Australia he (obviously) also wants to ban any existing Australians (the ones born here) from taking up the religion. As for those muslims already here, obviously James has several options to stamp them out:

    a) Round them up and sterilise them so they can’t breed.
    b) Round them up and shoot them.
    c) Round them up and put them in detention forever (obviously separating males & females)
    d) Round them up and deport them (to where, I’m not quite sure).

    I wonder if he’s actually thought this through and if he thinks any Austn Govt (Liberal or Labor) would agree with him? Yep, there sure is a lot of irrational hate in that bloke James. Also a lot of wierdness – so I’m Richard’s alter ego, am I? I’m Richard Ryan? James … listen … carefuly:

    You are a f*****g idiot.

  7. James says:

    a) Round them up and sterilise them so they can’t breed. Sounds pretty reasonable to me, we’d also be saving on future education costs etc. etc.
    b) Round them up and shoot them. The Army could do with the target practice
    c) Round them up and put them in detention forever (obviously separating males & females) Yes I’m glad to see you recognise the need for separation in that scenario.
    d) Round them up and deport them (to where, I’m not quite sure). Well just launch tell well out to sea, they’ve found there way here by boat in the first place, a large majority that is, and they can teach the inexperienced sailors the ropes. They’ll find somewhere else to terrorise, after all we know they are resourceful.

  8. Ray Dixon says:

    Congratulations, James, on just proving you’re on the extreme loony fringe of the political scale in this country. You’re right out there on the far, far mad right wing along with all the fruit loops. In your own words, you’re crazy.

  9. Tony says:

    Quite simple actually Ray, a dammed more simple than you may think.

    As I said above, as they entered they signed a declaration to obey Australian laws.
    As the become Australian citizens, they took another similar oath.

    As they break these oaths, in their life long aim, of erradicating white christan society, by bombing or buying everyone into submission, those oaths have been broken.
    Next step ?
    Deportation !

    In all you feel good, and apparent politically correct b/s rhetoric the solution to the problem is that simple.
    That is the way the problem developed in the first place, i.e. the apathy and head in the clouds ideology of the do good parade.
    IMHO, put them all on the same boat, and let them all feel sorry for each other, on their way back to the country they just came from, and stuffed up ?

  10. Tony says:

    Congratulations, James, on just proving you’re on the extreme loony fringe of the political scale in this country. You’re right out there on far, far mad right wing along with all the fruit loops. In your own words, you’re crazy.

    The apathy, and b/s political correctness, that you show above Ray, is exactly the reason as to why we have this whole problem in the first place !

  11. Tad Vinda (B. Bus) says:

    the only good allah freak is a dead one, in my opinion. round them up and give them two options. option a is getting on a boat or a plane and going back where they came from. option b is to stand in front of an army firing squad and try to dodge the bullets. towelhead fan boys like ray dixon and richard ryan just get option b. we dont need any more arab filth in this country and we dont need their weasely leftist apologists either. f**k allah and the pedo mohammed and their twisted medeval ideology.

  12. James says:

    Ray dear Ray, there you go again, running, no that’s foaming at the mouth again. Ray, all I did was take YOUR suggestions and qualify them and then you turn around and attack me. The usual last resort tactic applied again, we see it so often.

    You’d better be sure to turn up at your local Mosque tomorrow 6 times not just 3. Just make sure you vacuum your pray mat before you take it in too, wouldn’t want anyone to catch something from you.

    Oh and while your there, could you put in a good word with sexy old Allah for me, to make sure he’s go at least one of those virgins he’s always promising the suicide bombers, the Islamic martyrs, I’ll be looking forward to entertaining in the after life.

  13. Ray Dixon says:

    Answer the questions, guys: Which political party would support your radical, hate-filled views? The answer is none of them – not the mainstream ones at least.

    You guys better find a new political party to support because even Tony Abbott would be revolted – I REPEAT: ABBOTT WOULD BE REVOLTED – by what you’ve expressed here.

    All of you.

  14. Tony says:

    Its not a question of politics, hate, or being radical Ray. That’s the whole problem in the first place, the pandering to these minority groups gives them the foot in the door so to speak ? Before you know it, they are assembling a bomb, to blow the entire door of it’s hinges ?

    Do you want to live in Australia, or just a clone of Bahgdad ?

    Do unto others before they do unto you ! if that’s hate, then sure, I can live with that, especially to the undeducated, and unaware.
    😉

  15. Tony says:

    BTW Ray, what would you say to the relatives of the dead ?
    Oh sorry, tough ti**ies that.

    When do you have the guts, to stand up, and say no more !

  16. Ray Dixon says:

    They ain’t done nothing here to justify your ‘jumping at shadows’ and scared shitless reactions. You have no idea how to implement your proposals so go and get a clue, – you know, like a plan – and one that a Govt might think is reasonable, workable, warranted and fair before you start running off at the mouth like little Pauline Hansons. Actually, you make Pauline look like Mother Teresa! And please tell me (I repeat, again), which political party in this country do you lot think would ever support your kneejerking, idiotic, childish, unworldly, ill-founded, hate-mongering crap?

  17. Tony says:

    Geez man, did you watch the news tonight at all ?
    You call that “jumping at shadows” ?

    As for me not knowing how to implement, certainaly I am not a military general nor a diplomat.
    The first part of any plan, is go in there, and start rounding up the ring leaders. Hell, we supposedly, at least in the western world, have the best intelligence gathering devices ever, (at least so they keep telling us ?), and they don’t know who, or where these fools are hiding ? They found Hussein hiding in fear, they found and got bin laden doing the same, so you can’t tell me they don’t know where they are. Pakistan is hiding them, and the yanks know who they all are, but like here, they don’t want to go in, because it will cost them votes from the “feel good brigade”.

    Your feel good dribble is just astounding Ray, really is.
    I suppose you think every serviceman that fought the japanese was a commie hating racist as well ?
    What about those that fought in Korea, and Vietnam ? Those to ?

    You asked what party would implement such a plan ?
    Any one of them, that honestly thought there was enough votes in it, to get them into office.
    You know that as well as I do !

  18. Ray Dixon says:

    Tony, learn to read. I am asking you how you lot propose to ban muslims from Australia and which political party do you think will support your nonsense.

  19. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    I don’t support your straw-man argument about some sort of pogrom against those Muslims already here, you know very well that I have always been very specific here at this blog in pointing out that my objections to Islam are based entirely upon the tenets of that faith.and a sincere desire not to see this country under the heel of any sort of totalitarianism. Thus I do not endorse the flights of dark fantasy enunciated by both Tad, James and Tony. I have always maintained that if Australian Muslims want to keep their religious beliefs and practices entirely to their private lives then no one, least of all me, gives a monkey’s about what nonsense they believe in or how they want to live their lives. The problem is that in every Muslim community in every western country once they reach a certain critical mass they start to get very Bolshie about imposing their values on everyone else. From wanting Halal food everywhere to describing western women as “cats meat” because they do not subscribe to their own fear of the flesh.

    Thus the full extent of my activism on this topic is the occasional venting about the atrocities committed in the name of Allah. You see I am not one to wrap up my disgust at any sort of religious nutters who take up the gun. Nor will you find me ever endorsing the sort of nonsense suggested by James even though I am very reticent about seeing more followers of Islam accepted as migrants. Speaking of which I think it is a silliness to suggest that as a migrant myself that I should be forbidden to consider the question of who else should be welcomed into this country. My family were invited to settle here and to make this country our own and we are all very passionate patriots (not one scoundrel in the Hall clan BTW)and that is the difference between so many of the more recent arrivals who have both seen Australian residency and citizenship as just a tool for economic advantage rather than as anything substantive and definitely as something secondary to the their totalitarian faith.

    Finally I made a comparison with neo-Nazis very deliberately because I wanted to invoke a comparison between the totalitarianism of the third Reich and Islam (bugger Godwin!)because its a most apt to compare two world views that have so many things in common not the least of which is their belief in imposing their ideology upon the whole world, or their anti-Semitic racism, or their “ends justifies the means” thinking or their disdain for women So I’ll ask you again would you be keen to import boat loads of Neo-Nazis? If your answer is a clear “no” then why would you be so sanguine about importing people who have an equally abhorrent ideology?

  20. Tony says:

    Tony, learn to read. I am asking you how you lot propose to ban muslims from Australia and which political party do you think will support your nonsense.

    Hell, learn how to read yourself, my reply to your “feel good political correctness”, is in the comment directly above yours ffs, as it was last night ?

    Iain ?

    I have always maintained that if Australian Muslims want to keep their religious beliefs and practices entirely to their private lives then no one, least of all me, gives a monkey’s about what nonsense they believe in or how they want to live their lives

    But, that is not what is happening is it Iain ?
    You only have to listen to that fez wearing ratbag in Sydney to reinforce that ? Your article above also reinforces that as well ?
    I see his followers have managed to keep his face out of the camera for a few months. With a bit of luck, he may have taken the hint. Sure took long enough ?

    This I do not endorse the flights of dark fantasy enunciated by both James and Tony

    Flights of dark fancy is a bit rich Iain. I have put an alternative up, and I think it is a valid one. “Do unto others before they do unto you ” perhaps ?
    I see you haven’t any ideas from you (or Ray for that matter ?), on any solutions at all ?

    What do you suggest, is the solution, and please disregard political correctness in your response, and be honest as James and I have been ?

    The immigration declaration would seem to be the simplest way to do it. They want to bring their warring tribal ways to this country, then so be it.
    If you do the crime, you have to do the time !

  21. Ray Dixon says:

    I do not endorse the flights of dark fantasy enunciated by both Tad, James and Tony
    … Nor will you find me ever endorsing the sort of nonsense suggested by James

    It’s a good idea to distance yourself from the raving, loopy extremists here, Iain, but I’m hardly using a strawman argument. I asked you clearly how you proposed to ban all muslim immigrants and which political party would support you, but you only answered that you are against ALL immigration. My point about you being an immigrant yourself was directed at that response – ie that you wanted no further immigrants full stop, not about the ethnic/religious mix of immigrants and/or their origins.

    As for your claim that if we let muslims reach a “critical mass” in Australia they’ll start to impose their values on everyone else, I just don’t see that happening. You’re suggesting they won’t intermarry and won’t assimilate but that has not been the case with all previous groups of immigrants and I think you’ll find your fears of “halal meat everywhere” and “no bikinis” are just that – fears.

    As for your last paragraph, would you mind addressing the issue that you raised by answering my legitimate questions re the implementation and legislation for your ‘ban all muslim immigrants’ proposal instead of using a strawman hypothetical question about nazis?

  22. Iain Hall says:

    Tony
    As someone well versed in the tenets of Islam I am well aware that unlike Christianity which tells its faithful to be always truthful Islam tells its believers that Allah WANTS them to lie Kafirs if it is to further the interests of Muslims. Which means that the sort of declaration you envisage would not be at all effective.
    Further if you don’t think that there would be a whole tribe of luvvie lawyers ready willing and able to challenge such a regime in the courts then you don’t know politics at all.
    As I suggested earlier the problem is how do we filter out those who hold Jihadist beliefs strongly enough for them to act or support those who do. and I can’t see anything that would be effective without bringing to light far too many false positives.

  23. Tony says:

    As someone well versed in the tenets of Islam I am well aware that unlike Christianity which tells its faithful to be always truthful Islam tells its believers that Allah WANTS them to lie Kafirs if it is to further the interests of Muslims. Which means that the sort of declaration you envisage would not be at all effective.

    Good point, and my reply ?

    Under Australian Law once you sign an immigration declaration, it is a legal, and binding document, that if you are found out to be lying on, or do not abide by it’s conditions, is an automatic offence. Regardless of the Islamic rhetoric. This is not an islamic state, at least not yet, and therefore, Australian law still is binging.

    There is your legal “out clause” and by its very nature, implies effectiveness ?

  24. Iain Hall says:

    Tony

    Under Australian Law once you sign an immigration declaration, it is a legal, and binding document, that if you are found out to be lying on, or do not abide by it’s conditions, is an automatic offence. Regardless of the Islamic rhetoric. This is not an Islamic state, at least not yet, and therefore, Australian law still is binging.

    There is your legal “out clause” and by its very nature, implies effectiveness ?

    As much as I am happy to acknowledge that what you say may be correct in a strictly legalistic sense in the real world such breaches may be very difficult and expensive to prosecute and there in lays the rub because most of our laws work on the basis that the people consent to them and agree to abide by the law even when individuals may not like it.If you have a significant cadre who will only pay lip service to it then new laws or regulations may not provide the social change that is desired.


    Ray

    It’s a good idea to distance yourself from the raving, loopy extremists here, Iain, but I’m hardly using a strawman argument. I asked you clearly how you proposed to ban all muslim immigrants and which political party would support you, but you only answered that you are against ALL immigration. My point about you being an immigrant yourself was directed at that response – ie that you wanted no rurther immigrants full stop, not about the ethnic/religious mix of immigrants and/or their origins.

    You are actually using a straw man by suggesting far more action than I have proposed in my post and then expecting me to argue against your interpretation,of what I said in my post. that is the classic straw man scenario. that said My preferred approach is to be stridently critical of the tenets of Islam if and when its adherents kill in the name of Allah in the (small) hope that those Muslims who are likewise concerned may actually try to reform the faith to make it more acceptable an the modern world and to the non Muslims that they claim to wan to co-exist with.

    As for your claim that if we let muslims reach a “critical mass” in Australia they’ll start to impose their values on everyone else, I just don’t see that happening. You’re suggesting they won’t intermarry and won’t assimilate but that has not been the case with all previous groups of immigrants and I think you’ll find your fears of “halal meat everywhere” and “no bikinis” are just that – fears.

    But it happens elsewhere in the world Ray, in England, Holland, France and everywhere else that there is a significant Muslim minority from the Muslim Rape gangs in the UK, to sharia vigilantes in Amsterdam.Even the drive-by shootings in Sydney are nearly all perpetrated by Muslim Lebanese gangs so please don’t close your eyes to the realities here that there IS a problem with the Islamic mindset.

    As for your last paragraph, would you mind addressing the issue that you raised by answering my legitimate questions re the implementation and legislation for your ‘ban all muslim immigrants’ proposal instead of using a strawman hypothetical question about nazis?

    There is NO NEED for me to name a party who might do as you are suggesting is my argument because we both know that it ain’t going to happen in contemporary Australia.
    Now please consider the legitimate common ground between the Ideology of the National Socialists and Islam:
    They both have a pathological hatred of the Jews.
    They both believe that there should be no separation between the religious and secular lives of the people
    They both believe that the position of women should be one of submission to men.
    They both believe that unbelievers are lesser creatures who can be killed with impunity.
    they both want to create an eternal global empire
    they both deify their Prophets even though both were very flawed men driven by ego hate and anger.

    Need I go on?
    Its a very valid comparison but I suspect that you realise I have a point on this but that you find it hard to provide a valid counter argument so you try to bush the point aside instead.

  25. Tony says:

    Not only are they binging >/i> but I think they are binding as well ? 🙄

    I realise the expense in prosecuting these infractions, but that is the beauty of it.
    If an infraction is found, then it doesn’t have to go to court. It is like every new immigrant is on probation for a short period. Now, I am not saying that all immigration is bad, nor should we have “big brother” overseeing every new arrival, just from those countries that advocate the violent behaviour we have all been seeing since 9/11 and beyond. Especially in the case of your article. What is the body count now, 60 killed, and over 200 injured by last nights news ? That’s bad enough, but to see the vision of them, heads and faces covered, loudly cheering that body count ?

    Are these the sort of neighbours we all want ffs ?
    As that basic contract has been breached, then deportation. No arguments, no hassles, a simple tribunal hearing, and see ya ?
    Its not as if it is a new priniciple either. Been happening for tourists etc, who break the law for years.

  26. Tad Vinda (B. Bus) says:

    gentlemen all these words and all this false middle class respect for islam “as a faith”, you are missing the point. islam and its followers come from the dark ages and have no place in civilized society. it is impossible to reason with or moderate islam therefore the only option is to bury it. we need to wage war on this pernicious cult and we need to do it now. yes it will involve blood shed but so be it. in 1945-46 we gave germans an option, either renounce nazism or be starved to death, if we dont shoot you first. the same approach needs to be employed re islam. as for the sand monkeys who come illegally on boats, a few severed heads on pikes on christmas island along with warning signs (in england and arabic) warning them that australia is a democratic judeo-christian country and does not tolerate terrorists, forehead knockers, polygamists or child rapists.

  27. James says:

    ,strong>Well said TV, what do we do about local sympathisers like RD, same treatment? 😯 😕

  28. Islam is a broad church.
    Seeing it as a single entity as the armchair diplomats here and other outsiders typically do is a fallacy.

    That Islam is used as a controlling & motivating force by sinister elements makes it no different from other religions.

    That many of the World’s poorest & dispossessed are still being born into Islam makes it no accident that much friction with western style civilisation is expressed in it’s name.

    Less than a quarter of the World is Muslim . Get used to it.

    Poverty & injustice is the problem, not Islam.

  29. Tony says:

    Your points may be valid guys, but there is one matter here that needs to be said.

    We, at least in the ‘civilised’ world, have learned to be tolerant of other religions, practices, ways of life etc, and attempt to make room for such differences. That is the problem, and where these b/s cults get a foot in the door to start with. They prey on that tolerance until they think they have a chance to control us. By then of course, it is always too late. If we had nipped the problem at the beginning, then we wouldn’t have the troubles we see now, and for the last ten odd years with Islam. They want the whole of the planet converted to their b/s religion, if will blow up all that oppose that edict.

    The Rays of the world, are just late arrivals on the scene. Those that can’t see the problem for what it is, so buried in minutia, and bureaucrisy, that by the time they finally do see the light, so to speak, it will all be too late. Not unlike the reasons as to why this planet suffers so many problems such as these. If action had been taken, when first seen, or warranted, then there wouldn’t be a problem would there ?
    Always more enlightened in hindsight though aren’t we ?

  30. Tony says:

    Seeing it as a single entity as the armchair diplomats here and other outsiders typically do is a fallacy

    From history of the last few decades, if we have it so wrong TIGT, then please, educate us ?

    Maybe they are being controlled by sinister elements, but those very same elements are gaining more and more power, feeding off the desperation in the countries suffering under this b/s religion ? Less than quarter of the world, is I think an optimist’s view. They are bragging even higher membership, and tell us, in no uncertain terms, that they want the ENTIRE planet worshipping their relgion, if not, then the violence will continue until it does. One wonders, that if they do succeed in that plan, what the violent portion of the religion do then ? Stop the violence ? Somehow, I doubt it.

    It seems like, as you said, it thrives in the poorest, most desperate portions of the planet. It just seems they want all the western trappings, but don’t want to have to get off their fat a*ses to earn them. We have seen many such instances of this laziness over this planet’s history. Radical Islam is just one of the latest that’s all.

    Again, it’s not the religion that is the problem, it is those who are running it !

  31. Iain Hall says:

    Actually Tony I do get that Ray wants to avoid the sort of sectarian hate that has been so evident in mixed cultures overseas and I truly think that is an admirable aim but you don’t get there by giving into the intolerant Islamic bullies who, as you suggest, take advantage the tolerance of the modern secular west to promulgate their own prejudices and the pursuit of the global Caliphate.
    Ray thinks that its an “irrational” “fear that drives the likes of you and me to criticise Islam but there is NOTHING irrational about being concerned about the threat that religious totalitarians pose to liberal western societies. The problem is how do we avoid becoming just as hateful and intolerant as the intolerant that wish us harm? The Christian notion of being morally superior by just taking it (turning the other cheek)just does not do the business against guns and bombs in shopping malls. I am open to suggestions but becoming a totalitarian state ourselves is proabably a bad idea and the suspension of our judicial due process when it comes to Muslim immigrants will solve nothing.

  32. Iain Hall says:

    Firstly let me welcome you to my Sandpit thisisgettingtiresome

    Islam is a broad church.

    Sure I can agree with that.

    Seeing it as a single entity as the armchair diplomats here and other outsiders typically do is a fallacy.

    If you take the time to peruse may back catalogue you will see that I have long been critical of Islam and that I do have some grasp of both the doctrines and reasonable grasp of the history of the faith.

    That Islam is used as a controlling & motivating force by sinister elements makes it no different from other religions.

    I can’t agree with that suggestion at all because I would argue that Islam actually inspires the “sinister elements” from within in its liturgy and social template.

    That many of the World’s poorest & dispossessed are still being born into Islam makes it no accident that much friction with western style civilisation is expressed in it’s name.

    On the contrary I would argue that it is the pernicious influence of Islam that has held back the those societies because it is a stultifying faith that wishes to keep its adherents in a rigidly controlled medieval society.

    Less than a quarter of the World is Muslim . Get used to it.

    Poverty & injustice is the problem, not Islam.

    Its no accident that so many Islamic countries are full of poverty and injustice after all what would you expect from a faith that thinks glorious death is better than happy life?

  33. Ray Dixon says:

    Oh for God’s sake Iain & others – of course Islam is a backwards religion practised by backwards people in backwards countries. Real stone age stuff. But you are translating what happens in those countries and superimposing it onto countries like Australia where we are not backwards and not living in the stone age.

    Muslims who emigrate here do so for a better life and to become part of our society, not for the ulterior reasons you lot espouse. Contrary to your ‘scared shitless’ approach we are not under any serious threat to our way of life, culture, safety and security from these people. Naturally we vet all arrivals and those with suspect links and/or history are rejected, as they should be, but by and large the ones admitted are simply NOT A PROBLEM.

    I’m getting pretty sick of your kneejerking and scared, nasty reactions. Australia is the great melting pot and we are not – I REPEAT – WE ARE NOT under threat from muslim immigrants.

    Grow up. Get a backbone. Get on with your own petty lives and stop denying others the right to be Australians.

  34. Tony says:

    I am sorry Ray, but I am equally as tired of head in the sand rhetoric, designed to portray the don’t worry mate, she’ll be right attitude, that you, and others portray in this argument. Are you in fact reading the articles Iain is republishing here, or in fact watching the news ? What are you going to say to the relatives of the 60 killed, and over 200 injured ? Tough ? You still haven’t answered that querie I made much earlier ? How, in all honesty, and with morals in mind, condone such behaviour ? By saying well it’s not here, don’t worry about it, won’t happen here ?

    Sh*t man, forgotten Bali already ?

    We have all said many times, the reasons for the influx of refugees/immigrants into this country, and you have ignored it all, in favour of your political correctness approach. Your ignorant bliss is not only unhelpful, but in the end, that ignorance truly becomes dangerous for the future. You just don’t see, or want to see the inherrent problems that will develop. Want to explore just a couple for kicks ?

    In this, and previous articles Iain has published, in those, was the fact, that by 2047 I think it was, Australia was supposed to be a muslum state. Hmm, won’t worry me, I’ll be dead. But, what about our kids ? Do they want to live under those tight restrictions ? I know mine won’t. Your head in the sand approach, will come back and say, what is wrong with that ? Maybe in your case perhaps nothing, but I know with my kids, if they were to be approached by an Imam, and told to pray and obey the laws of a relgion they don’t believe in, we all know what would happen. Exactly what is happening in these refugee home countries right now. And, over and over we go. History always repeats. Again, they attempt to create a carbon copy of their home countries, without the negative aspects. Once done though, the negative aspects always creep back in because they keep making the same mistakes in their societies over and over again, hence the expression above, history repeating itself ?

  35. Iain Hall says:

    Ray

    Oh for God’s sake Iain & others – of course Islam is a backwards religion practised by backwards people in backwards countries. Real stone age stuff. But you are translating what happens in those countries and superimposing it onto countries like Australia where we are not backwards and not living in the stone age.

    Thanks for acknowledging the obvious here Ray, I salute you for doing so

    Muslims who emigrate here do so for a better life and to become part of our society, not for the ulterior reasons you lot espouse. Contrary to your ‘scared shitless’ approach we are not under any serious threat to our way of life, culture, safety and security from these people. Naturally we vet all arrivals and those with suspect links and/or history are rejected, as they should be, but by and large the ones admitted are simply NOT A PROBLEM.

    I agree with much of that as well, however the experience overseas suggest that it is often the children of those seeking the changes you describe who are soften ripe for recruitment to Jihad, anti social behaviour or Protesting against the very freedoms that so attracted their parents to immigrate in the first place

    I’m getting pretty sick of your kneejerking and scared, nasty reactions. Australia is the great melting pot and we are not – I REPEAT – WE ARE NOT under threat from Muslim immigrants.

    Certainly not EVERY Muslim immigrant Ray I’ll concede that however given the fact that we have some Muslims enjoying our jails at present for plotting Jihad I have to ask you just how we address this problem now while it is still manageable.

    Grow up. Get a backbone. Get on with your own petty lives and stop denying others the right to be Australians.

    There are literally hundreds of distinctive cultures and religious traditions on this planet and I am more than happy to welcome as immigrants anyone who has a good prospect of becoming good Australians as someone else pointed out Muslims are a minority as a percentage of the global population. Yet we are not obliged to take all comers here even if we were to follow your prescription for a large immigration program why shouldn’t we choose throe people who can integrate in to a peaceful and prosperous country rather than those who would be divisive and have a cultural tradition that is at odds with our own secular liberal tradition?

  36. James says:

    RD, you might have a “petty life” but don’t assume because that’s your station in life that you can make an assumption that the rest of us suffer like you.

  37. GD says:

    Australia is the great melting pot and we are not – I REPEAT – WE ARE NOT under threat from muslim immigrants.

    Two points here Ray.

    BTW Iain thanks for presenting a well-argued defence against our resident ‘head in the sand’ Islam apologist.

    Yes, Ray, Australia is the great big melting pot. The USA is also a great big melting pot. In fact the USA has been a great bigger melting pot for more years than our society has existed.

    And that melting pot has, by and large, worked. That is until the rise of radical Islamisation in the late 20th century.

    This new Islamic ‘melting pot’ isn’t working in America, with 3000 dead from the muslim terrorist attack on the Trade Center and the Pentagon.

    This Islamic ‘melting pot’ isn’t working in Britain, where ordinary citizens were blown apart by bombs while on the train home from work. Among them were several Australians, innocently partaking in a sports carnival.

    This Islamic ‘melting pot’ isn’t working in Sweden where there are now ‘no go zones’ for those who aren’t muslim.

    Unfortunately, for Australia, we have leftists who are advocating continued Islamic immigration as opposed to immigration from countries that support our values.

  38. Tony says:

    Perhaps those, who believe like Ray, that we don’t have a problem, should watch Pat.
    He is saying all what we have said here, only more. Pretty eye opening stuff, and worthy, especially before apologists like Ray, of just a minute’s thought before emotionally spraying that we don’t have a problem ?

    Europe now, Australia definitely on the list to be next.

  39. James says:

    Seige over in Kenya, authorities saying Brits and Americans involved. So they couldn’t be recruiting people in Australia could they Ray. Seems we have a few in prison here already that have joined the dark side.

    Ray for all your faults that we the collective here have picked up on, we wouldn’t want to see you in prison, would we guys, well I wouldn’t the others have their own opinion, I’ll talk to them for you.

  40. Ray Dixon says:

    given the fact that we have some Muslims enjoying our jails at present for plotting Jihad I have to ask you just how we address this problem now while it is still manageable

    Exactly the way we’ve handled it so far, Iain. Btw, those muslims convicted of plotting attacks were basically a bunch of try hards talking ‘tough’ and I doubt they’d have had the ability or gumption to move beyond their fantasies and actually do anything, however, I agree they deserved jail, if only for being complete tools.

    And given the success of our authorities in weeding out the bad seeds (either at entry point or by sureveillance), where is the imperative that we do anything different to what we do now in relation to muslims emigrating to this country? Where is the data that backs up your call for a blanket ban on all muslim immigrants, which is the central question you (and all the extremists here) still haven’t addressed.

    You do realise, don’t you Iain (and guys), that only a handful of extremists in this country agree with your call and none of them are representative of mainstream political parties (with the possible exception of Cory Bernardi). That puts you in a tiny minority calling for a ban on muslims with no political support.

    Look, it takes more than your dislike of burqas, halal food and other Islamic traditions to make the quantum leap of logic to imposing a blanket ban. You lot can point to examples overseas as much as you like but if you run a full list of all Islamic terrorist acts over the past decade or so, you’ll find very few committed in westernised democracies and most of them (the great majority) committed in third world countries. Until, and unless, it becomes evident that we are under serious threat by allowing muslims to emigrate to Australia, you simply do not have a leg to stand on and you’re all just mouthing off and pissing in the wind.

  41. Tony says:

    At least we are coming up with some facts Ray, unlike you.
    Speaking of just mouthing off, and p*ssing into the wind ffs.

    Look, it takes more than your dislike of burqas, halal food and other Islamic traditions to make the quantum leap of logic to imposing a blanket ban

    I wonder what would happen, if your daughter, and worse still your wife, were minding their own business, perhaps on a fun shoppnig trip, in down town Bright, and were confronted by a couple of towel heads, (i.e the Islam fashion police ?), grabbed, pushed into a dark place, and told to cover up her face, head, and the remainder of her body, or there would be reprisals ? Like they were nothing more than dressed cattle in a butcher’s shop ?

    Don’t say it doesn’t happen. Please, ffs, don’t insult our intelligence by saying that it doesn’t happen. Even here in Australia !

    Grow up, and smell what your shovelling Sir.
    You’re an ignorant fool if you believe otherwise, and I really feel sorry for you.

  42. Ray Dixon says:

    You’re an ignorant fool

    Tony, your whole comment (and general stance on this topic) is full of ignorance. And your ludicrous scenario certainly does not happen – here or in any westernised democracy.

  43. Tony says:

    And your’s is nothing more than Ossie Ostrich parady Ray.
    Real head in the sand stuff.

    check today tonight’s, or a current affair’s respective websites, and then perhaps your definitions of ludicrousness may need a bit of updating ?
    Perhaps Sixty Minutes. Hell, there was a big story on this very subject only a few weeks ago ffs.
    But then again, you feel that you already know everything, and don’t feel the need to research any facts do you ?

    Not only does it happen in Australia already has, both in Sydney and Melbourne.
    Again, being a lazy researcher, with poor skills, has again caught you out !

    Boy, for you to continually defend the indefensible, you must really live in fear of reprisal up there in Bright ?
    Let us know if that is the case, and we will go quiet to save you further intimidation from your “local fashion police ?”

  44. Ray Dixon says:

    Isn’t it about time you guys stopped your scaremongering and insulting rhetoric and addressed the key issue here? The key issue is Iain’s call for a blanket ban on all muslim immigration that you lot cheer in support of (and go off like like pork chops). Central to that key issue is the question of implementation. So go on, tell us:

    1. How you propose to implement such a ban?
    2. Which political party do you suggest would support your discrimination?
    3. And what ramifications would you expect from such a discriminatory move?

    Answer the key questions guys, instead of attacking someone who sees you are coming from a position of extremism without a workable plan, without a reasoned justification and without any support from mainstream thinking and govt. Come on, cough up your ideas of exactly how this would work – either that or take your hate-filled rhetoric out on someone else. I’ll wait for a reasonable response, although that might be asking you too much.

  45. Ray Dixon says:

    Tony, you have not given any evidence to support your claim that local women in Australia are being accosted and told to cover up. So quit the insults and address the real issue, please. You’re really going off.

  46. Tony says:

    And you think there isn’t a problem ? Hmm ?

    Don’t forget that wonderful Australian instigator of peace (sic) Mahommed Feiz.

    Remember some of his pearls of Islamic wisdom perhaps ?

    Feiz Mohammad, the radical preacher cited by dead Boston Marathon bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev, is a former boxer who blames women for being raped and called for a prominent Dutch politician to be beheaded.

    Widely known as ‘Sheikh Feiz’, the preacher was born in Australia circa 1970-1 but fled to Lebanon, the homeland of his parents, eight years ago after becoming one of the world’s most controversial Islamic lecturers.

    He has been investigated by Australian police for inciting violence and terrorism, and was even captured on a British TV documentary encouraging children to become martyrs for Islam six years ago.

    Feiz has been described by some as Australia’s most dangerous sheikh, because of the number of connections he holds to known terrorists.

    Although it is not known whether the hardline sheikh has any direct links to Al-Qaeda, he has regularly broadcast sermons from the group’s spiritual leader, Anwar al-Awlaki, on his website.
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/459253/20130419/feiz-mohammad-tamerlan-tsarnaev-boston-marathon.htm

    Remember, this guy is Australian, and remember his appearances on ACA and TT just before he fled the country, in embarassment all those years ago ?
    This was the guy I was remembering.
    So, again, are you going to continue with this uneducated spray that there is no problem in Australia Ray ?

  47. Tony says:

    Tony, you have not given any evidence to support your claim that local women in Australia are being accosted and told to cover up. So quit the insults and address the real issue, please. You’re really going off.

    That should be enough to get you started ?

    And please by pass the usual personality insults, or the identity challenges in your reply.
    I’m not the one who is looking the lunatic here, and remember, with perhaps a bit of solace that the body count is over 60 killed, and over 200 injured in their latest foray into the religion for peace campaign.

  48. Tony says:

    btw, we answered those very questions of yours earlier in the thread.

  49. Ray Dixon says:

    Tony, I have not mentioned your identity. As for insults, your comments have been loaded with them, not mine.

    As for your evidence, it does not support your call for a blanket ban on all muslim immigration. You keep referring to overseas incidents but you provide not one shred of evidence that our current immigration programs (that are endorsed by both sides of politics) need to be radically altered to exclude all muslims.

    Now unless you answer the key questions and drop the insults I won’t be bothered responding to you any further. You’re like a stuck record crying ‘the sky is falling’. Well, what exactly do you suggest be done about it – and how? Face reality and explain how your ‘ban all muslims’ rubbish would work.

  50. Ray Dixon says:

    btw, we answered those very questions of yours earlier in the thread.

    NO, you have not answered them.

  51. Tony says:

    the answers are above Ray, from not only me, but also Iain, James, as well as Tad I think had a go as well.
    Please don’t ask me to do your research for you again ?
    We are all getting tired of having to do that ffs.

  52. Ray Dixon says:

    You did not answer the questions. Your responses were incoherent and unworkable – try again, please. It’s not hard. Here, I’ll repeat the questions – do try to put together a cogent and workable response (minus the insults):

    1. How do you propose to implement such a ban?
    2. Which political party do you suggest would support your discrimination?
    3. And what ramifications would you expect from such a discriminatory move?

  53. Tony says:

    Oh ffs. The answers are above, but being that you are such a lazy researcher, and can’t objectively look at any comment, unless it agrees with yours, I’ll keep the sentences short.

    1. Through selective immigration as has been the case all the way up to Whitlam in 72.
    2. Again repeated for your benefit. any one of them, that thought, the next election could be won, from the votes coming from a change in such policy !
    3. Legal appeals. Threats of violence from those Islamists waiting on our shores, that have cracked the s*ts, that all of a sudden the family reunification scheme is now no longer around, to reunite them, with their 5000 cousins aunties et al ?

    Perhaps bans on our prized lamb ? That would be a good thing, as then mayby the rest of us, may be able to afford to buy a leg of lamb for once, without having to mortgage the house ?

    A few more economic ones, but you have proven that economics is not exactly your strong point, so won’t go there.
    That should be enough to get you started on a merry dance towards political correctness heaven ?

  54. Tony says:

    btw, since when is trying to prevent violence, holy jihads, religious domination, economic domination, immigration domination and so on, and so on, all of a sudden my discrimination ffs ? Especially considering that they have no qualms in stating publicly, that their aim is to turn us into another one of their islamic states, whatever it takes ?
    Not that’s discrimination if you ask me.

  55. Ray Dixon says:

    Thanks, Tony. Your responses to questions 1 & 2 just prove my point that such a ban cannot and will not be implemented. To start with, any political party that goes to an election proposing such a discriminatory blanket ban on a class of people will not have a hope in hell of being elected. The Coalition won’t do it and nor will any party that has any hope of getting even one candidate elected. Face it, you’re in a tiny minority of extremists and your ideas have no support from those who matter.

    And your answer to question 3 is only partly right. By introducing such a discriminatory ban you would indeed be making Australia a massive target for terrorist attacks. You’d be giving them justification for infiltrating us somehow and actually carrying something out. You’d be defeating your own objective and actually provoking terror, not stopping it.

    Now, as you have answered the questions and proved yourself that your idea of a blanket ban on muslims cannot and will not work, how about you cut out all the hysteria and insults against someone who just sees things more rationally and calmly than you do.

    You can keep it up if you like (and no doubt you will) but I won’t be responding to you any furrther and you’ll just be pissing into the wind and ranting (again). Thankfully, calmer heads than yours are running the country and our successful immigration programs .

  56. Tony says:

    By introducing such a discriminatory ban you would indeed be making Australia a massive target for terrorist attacks.

    The above Ray, is the prime problem with your whole argument.
    We already ARE a target for radical islamic retalliation.
    Even the local imams stated that, after we supported the U.S. after 9/11, so you are way behind the times there. Again, need we all remind you of Bali ?

    You won’t be responding to me huh ? Oh hell, promises promises.

    You are the one who needs to get your head out of the bucket it’s in, by opening your eyes, and realise, that this planet is not Utopia. There are people, bad people out there, who would have no hesitation in landing here, and reducing us to nothing more than strands of DNA ffs. A little bit of thought, and stricter checking of histories, as well origin points, would not be perhaps a little prudent in the selection, of who and where we open our doors to, is not prudent ? Hell, we have had this discussion before, regarding refugees, that have conveniently lost all their idendification papes upon arrival, and wonder why it takes ten years to be accepted, and given visas ?

    Thankfully, calmer heads than yours are running the country and our successful immigration programs .

    LMFAO ! The politicians in Canberra ? 😆

    You can also continue your long winded, political correctness campaign, benign of common sense, and sit in your country house, and watch as the violence continues, both here and overseas, with more senseless deaths, all under the cries of religious freedoms.
    Thank God, there are people, even in Canberra, that are also concerned about the situation, and are trying to formulate policies to attempt to solve the problem, and even attempt to appease the flower power set, that you are a card carrying member of ?

  57. Ray Dixon says:

    Okay, I will make one more response and then I will ask you to leave me out of your abusive diatribes against muslims:

    Our authorities already carry out checks and reject those who shouldn’t be here. Yes, we have had this “discussion” before and yes, as usual, you can’t conduct a “discussion” without resorting to exaggeration, outlandish claims, hysteria and insulting anyone who doesn’t agree with your extreme position.

    I repeat: A blanket ban on muslims is not the answer and our current vetting seems to be working fine. Go tell (and yell at) someone else please. I am not a “flower power” person or, as GD implies, an idealistic “leftist”. I’m just someone who sees through your hysteria and reacts more calmly to what is not a real problem in this country.

  58. Tony says:

    You’re not arguing Ray, again, you are orating, or lecturing, expecting everyone to go along with your views, without challenge.
    Well, guess what, your view is blind, and without substantiation as usual, and now you have been called on it, by not only me, but GD, Tad, James, and a few others, you are again, thumping the discussion table into submission. And failed !

    See if your oration changes its tune, in a couple of weeks, when the investigation in Kenya provides more facts perhaps ?
    Or is that all hysteria by the extreme right as well ?

  59. James says:

    OK Ray, you no doubt read your Qurán on a daily bassis so you might be able to explain to the rest of us, the infidels, just how these quotations from that book would be disregarded by the faithful like yourself in Australia;

    God gradually reduces the land under the control of the unbelievers from its outlying borders…13:41

    God is the master planner…13:42

    God will make the believers to live in the land of the wrong doers (those who are perished by God) and succeed them…14:14

    I really love this one: God gradually reduces the land controlled by unbelievers…21:44

    God will grant inheritance in land and will establish the authority of believers of religion (Islam)…24:55

    There they are, the words of Allah and in my book that reads like take over other peoples lands at all costs.

    Then of course these the quotes from their holiest of holiest books which sort of puts the idea of assimilation into their new adopted land on the back cover:

    Do not take unbelievers as friends; caution is necessary to befriend the unbelievers…3:28

    It is not honourable to take unbelievers as friends…4:139

    Do not take unbelievers as friends…4:144

    This one is a really doozey; Believers are not to take the Jews and Christians as friends and protectors; if any believer (i.e. Muslim) turn to them then he also becomes a Jew or a Christian…5:51

    God’s wrath and torments is for befriending the unbelievers…5:80

    Wonderful stuff you believe in there Ray, I say when you read just a few of the pages of their Qurán you’ve read the whole document and what it indicates to me is an aim to establish Islamic Paradises in infidel lands and at the same time change the culture of the West. You may dismiss my thought as a pure conjecture and a complete utopia or even as a phobia, but do not forget: There is a limit to every tolerance. There is a bound to every generosity. There is an edge to everything.

    Let the Islamists get the real message and at the same time get a life!

  60. Ray Dixon says:

    James, you dolt, I don’t read the Qaran. I don’t follow Islam. In fact I actually think Islam is a stupid, backwards religion. But what you’re quoting are only words. They’re just hollow words that some extremists use to justify their atrocities. What is your point? The muslims in Australia are not carrying out those words to the extreme you suggest. It isn’t happening here and it’s not likely to. Now get off your stupid soap box, will you? I don’t give a shit what’s written in the Qaran, the Bible or any other ridiculous religious publication and your literal interpretation just shows you up as the scared little weird guy you actually are. Now for f’s sake, get off my case. I am as entitled to an opinion as what you are and guess what? Your opinion and the views you have expressed in this thread put you in a tiny minority of the extreme right wing lunatic fringe. I’ll stick with what most decent, rational people believe, thank you very much – which is that our current intake of immigrants is causing no problem whatsoever. Here’s a tip for you – go out and buy a gun because you sure seem to think they’re out to get you. Christ you’re weird.

  61. James says:

    lunatic fringe Ray, try telling this 5 year old, if he’d had a chance to grow up, that those who are wary of the Islamics are all part of your “Lunatic Fringe”.

    In the Westgate Kenyan mall the terrorists separated Muslims from non-Muslims before killing them. The Muslims were allowed to go free if they could recite a Muslim prayer.

    During the attack, Al Shabaab’s Arabic Twitter account quoted the Koran, “Plant firmly our feet and give us victory over (Al-Kafireen) the disbelieving people.” (Koran 2:250). The Kuffar, the non-Muslims of Westgate, included small children.

    “I don’t understand why you would shoot a five-year-old child,” but then of course, the five-year-old was not a Muslim.

    It’s moments like these that worldwide put the Clash of Civilizations into bloody context. This isn’t abstract politics. It’s not about economics, the environment or foreign policy. It’s about a worldview in which a five-year-old who can’t recite the Islamic confession of faith deserves to be killed.

    The crime is not being a Muslim.

    Or as Al Shabaab put it on Twitter, “Only Kuffar were singled out for this attack. All Muslims inside #Westgate were escorted out by the Mujahideen (Islamic Holy Warriors) before beginning the attack.”

    Ray it’s people like you who offer even a thread of defence for these people and their religion that fuel their efforts, worldwide!

    Once again you have demonstrated in your previous post, that as Tony and others have pointed out time and time again, you resort to feeble insults, well two can play at that.

    The way I see it is your innocence is only out-weighted by your arrogance and ignorance, which you have displayed time and time again..

  62. Tony says:

    You’re wasting your time attempting a serious, sane argument with Ray, James.
    He doesn’t even follow his own rules, see above ?
    you dolt Ray talking about insulting behaviour. Sigh

    Your still out of phase with decent human personal interaction, that it is amazing anyone else is in the same dimension as your self.

    BTW Ray, you still haven’t said what you are going to say to the over 60 that were killed (and that doesn’t include the possibly 100+ bodies they think are still there in the mess ?), and the over 200 injured ?

    Perhaps you don’t think those people, and their families, warrant or deserve any respect or sympathy here ?
    Boy, that really is cold.

  63. Tony says:

    that should read families of no good trying to talk to them, they’re dead !

  64. James says:

    Tony, it’s clear Ray has no qualifications what-so-ever to past any comments with regards this subject as by his own words, he doesn’t read the Corán. If he hasn’t taken the time to read the terrorists handbook, he certainly isn’t in a position to cast dispersion on the comments of others who do real in depth research on subjects.

    I think this has also been reflected in past threads on Australian politics by Ray, something that has been highlighted by some pathetic simplistic un-researched reply’s.

  65. Tony says:

    Unfortunately James, this is what happens when you give into the political correctness brigade, those so scared of public impressions, or appearances, that they let this sleaze pass, all to look good.

    Before he comes up and says again religious persecution, or islamaphobia, my ire would be the same if the religion were Islam or Catholic ffs.
    And haven’t they done some damage over the centuries ? Do we really need to go through that again, or have we as a planet, finally woken up to this religious fervour, and are finally calling it for what it is, and want to stand up and say no more ?

  66. Ray Dixon says:

    You’re an idiot, James. This issue is about whether we should (or could) ban muslim immigration into Australia. Read Iain’s post, that’s the main point and, as he has since qualified, he does NOT agree with your extreme views (or Tony’s or Tad’s). You are not addressing that issue and, instead you keep ranting and referring to the Kenyan event and other world events (and to the bloody Qaran) as somehow being relevant to that question. Now shut up about all that (if you can) and address the key issue – ie are muslim immigrants a serious problem here and does that warrant Australia banning muslim immigration? And, if so, just how the hell would you see that working? The reality is you’re just running off at the mouth. No, wait, you’re frothing at the mouth over your anti-muslim hatred. Well, guess what, buddy? You’re in an extreme right wing lunatic minority and no one who matters (including your precious Coalition govt) agrees with you. Now bugger off – I’ve had enough of you.

  67. GD says:

    Ray, neither I, nor Iain, or myriad commenters here have suggested banning all muslim immigration. That is a figment of your imagination.

    What we are calling for is a considered limiting of islamic immigration due to the problematic results of unlimited islamic immigration in other Western nations.

    Surely this is a sensible policy given the disastrous results of Islamic immigration in Britain, France, Holland and Sweden.

    To suggest that Australia should ignore the warnings from other countries and open our borders to all and sundry indicates that you not only have your head in the sand but are also complicit in furthering Islam’s incursion into Australian society.

  68. Richard Ryan says:

    we are ‘not Asian’ or ‘not part of Asia’ —the man of conviction John Howard 1996—-what a load of crap. Now it is the Muslims turn.

  69. Tony says:

    Your wasting your time GD whilst ever it’s foaming at the mouth.

    Chill out Ray ffs, you are sounding, and carrying on like a startled bloody rabbit

  70. Iain Hall says:

    Ray what I don’t get is the way that you keep insisting that my post was an argument for a total ban on Muslim immigrants even after I made it clear that was not my argument. Then on top of that you seem to have this rather silly idea that under no circumstances should we ever consider an applicant’s religious affiliations and commitments in judging their suitability as immigrants. as if the notion of “non discrimination” was some kind of cast iron blindfold that obliges us to ignore affiliations with some very nasty ideology. My Beef has ALWAYS been with the Jihadists and their enablers within the Muslim Diaspora and if there was a way of making sure that only they could be excluded from this country then I might be inclined to suggest that such exclusions be implemented. However I don’t think that any sort of exclusion policy can ever be practically implemented which leaves just one workable strategy and that is educating the public about the true nature of Islam, the way that it seeks world domination and its dark totalitarian heart. That is what I seek to do on these pages. heck even you don’t dispute the perniciousness of its nature so I have been struggling to understand just why you are so vociferous in defending followers of that faith against reasonable criticism of their ideology. Then the penny dropped; I don’t think that you truly understand the religiously motivated way of thinking or seeing the world and that you can only see religion as a very small part of a life, something that only ever manifests itself for religious holidays and rite of passage events like births deaths and weddings. That is a secular understanding of religion that is very much at odds with the reality of the thinking of anyone who is of a religious bent. Can I suggest that you consider being a Muslim is like having a Joffaesque commitment to Collingwood, and that it teaches that followers of all other clubs are lesser creatures who are to be converted to the black and white faith or else?

    At is core within Islam is the notion of submission to God as he is described in the Koran, there are no half measures and no peaceful “love thy neighbour“no “Thou shall not Kill” stuff in fact the only Muslims who can be seen as an entirely non threat are those who are Muslim in name only, those who live an entirely secular life, do not attend mosque on Fridays who do not pray five times a day. My guess is that these are the sort of people that you imagine when you think of Islam but they are very much the minority, the out group if you like and if they were the only people who we welcomed as immigrants I would be very happy to agree that they could make excellent Australians its not those Muslims that concern me its those far more observant Muslims who will barrack for Allah the way that Joffa barracks for Collingwood, who will do do anything to make Islam the grand final winners, not just for this year but forever. Do you get the picture I am painting here? Just imagine importing thousands of Joffas into the country and think how it may destroy the game that you love. Would you import those Joffas?

  71. Ray Dixon says:

    Iain, your post certainly did call for a total ban on Muslim immigrants with this statement/conclusion:

    “if anyone actively subscribes to an ideology that endorses the ongoing atrocity in Nairobi then they should have no place in this country. End of story.”

    That is a clear and unequivocal call for all devout muslims to be banned from Australia regardless of their records.

    And nowhere in the comments that ensued did you make it clear it was not your argument. The only qualification you made was when you distanced yourself from the lunatic fringe’s suugestions of eradicating/detaining/deporting those muslims already living here.

    Even now, you are still, in the same comment you just made, calling for an effective ban on all muslim immigrants on the basis that (according to you) a policy that only excludes “Jihadists and their enablers within the Muslim Diaspora” cannot be “practically implemented”. In other words, you believe the only way to weed out the bad seeds is to ban the lot of them – that’s what you just said, although you tried to disguise that with your overuse of words.

    The thing is, Iain, that despite your claims of superior intelligence on the backgrounds of those muslims we do admit, I think I’m more inclined to trust our skilled & trained investigators who carry out the asseessments for entry rather than your hunches, beliefs, prejudices and fears. So far they seem to be doing a pretty good job of keeping out “the baddies”, unless you think there’s a terrorist cell that has snuck in under the radar somehow – I don’t. Well not one that poses any real significant threat or problem. There are always dreamers & schemers in any group of migrants – look at the Italians and the Mafia – but I reckon we’re on top of it and not in the same situation as Europe or the UK. Btw, Europe and the UK have thousands of years of history of civil unrest, war & terror – it is simply in their culture to be always fighting each other and among themselves, whereas in Australia we are just a tad more civilised and stable.

    And I don’t need a lecture from you on what religion means, Iain. I find that rather patronising, as I do your footy analogy, which btw, you have got arse about. It is the Joffas of this world and most Collingwood supporters who are the “lesser creatures” but they have a right to exist and do not “destroy the game” – in fact without them it would be rather boring and there’d be no one to joke about.

    GD,

    Ray, neither I, nor Iain, or myriad commenters here have suggested banning all muslim immigration. That is a figment of your imagination.

    What we are calling for is a considered limiting of islamic immigration due to the problematic results of unlimited islamic immigration in other Western nations.

    What a load of tosh, GD. See above – Iain has certainly called for a total ban, as have the lunatic fringe. You should speak for yourself, not others. Oh, so it’s only a “limiting of Islamic immigration” now? You only want to discriminate a little bit? You want it tightened up? You know better than the experts and officials, do you? Well, I suggest you write to your new local Coalition MP (whoever that might be *) and see how you get on. Good luck with that.

    (*Or did yours not get up?)

  72. Tony says:

    The two you tube clips I uploaded yesterday were perfect examples of what you were talking about Iain.

  73. Tony says:

    Again, you are selectively quoting Ray to prove that we are racist bogans.

    I know I have said it numerous times, immigration is not the problem, the problem is once they are here.
    The two clips above, showed clear breaches of the law, and breaches of what would be their immigration declarations. Deport them, simple !

    When they start their racist violence, and intimidation, same thing deportation !

    When they start their intimidation, (i.e women told to cover up, or else shuffled off into the night), arrest them, then deport them.

    That is what we are talking about. If they want to come, and truly become a part of the Australian way of live, then in my books, they are truly welcome here.
    If they don’t, or just want to create carbon copies of the society they just left, then p*ss off !

  74. Ray Dixon says:

    Yes, if they break our laws deport them. That is what we do. It works. Same goes for any immigrants.

  75. Tony says:

    Hasn’t worked in western Sydney though has it ?

  76. Iain Hall says:

    Ray

    Iain, your post certainly did call for a total ban on Muslim immigrants with this statement/conclusion:

    “if anyone actively subscribes to an ideology that endorses the ongoing atrocity in Nairobi then they should have no place in this country. End of story.”

    That is a clear and unequivocal call for all devout muslims to be banned from Australia regardless of their records.

    I don’t want to get bogged down in semantics but I am clearly drawing a distiction betweem “devout Muslims and those who endorse the ongoing atrocity in Nairobi that does not of necessity mean all of those who would otherwise be considered as “devout” but it sounds to me that YOU think that the devout and the endorsers of Jihad are one and the same.

    And nowhere in the comments that ensued did you make it clear it was not your argument. The only qualification you made was when you distanced yourself from the lunatic fringe’s suggestions of eradicating/detaining/deporting those muslims already living here.

    Iwould have thought that having consistently made the distinction between the Jihadis and other Muslims on these pages that such a caveat would not be necessary Every time I have cause to be critical of yet another atrocity.

    Even now, you are still, in the same comment you just made, calling for an effective ban on all muslim immigrants on the basis that (according to you) a policy that only excludes “Jihadists and their enablers within the Muslim Diaspora” cannot be “practically implemented”.

    In other words, you believe the only way to weed out the bad seeds is to ban the lot of them – that’s what you just said, although you tried to disguise that with your overuse of words.

    That may be your interpretation Ray but if that was my specific meaning then that would have been precisly what I would have said however I specifically pointed out that I am not in any sort of position to make anything of that ilk happen. .

    The thing is, Iain, that despite your claims of superior intelligence on the backgrounds of those muslims we do admit, I think I’m more inclined to trust our skilled & trained investigators who carry out the assessments for entry rather than your hunches, beliefs, prejudices and fears.

    Hmm maybe if they have the courage to ask the right questions which is the crucial point and frankly I don;t think that its wise to give those that even you suspect, namely the devout, the benefit of the doubt.

    So far they seem to be doing a pretty good job of keeping out “the baddies”, unless you think there’s a terrorist cell that has snuck in under the radar somehow – I don’t.

    The Jihadists in our Jails suggest that you are wrong Ray.

    Well not one that poses any real significant threat or problem. There are always dreamers & schemers in any group of migrants – look at the Italians and the Mafia – but I reckon we’re on top of it and not in the same situation as Europe or the UK.

    Your comparison with the Mafia is just silly Ray, that was an organisation dedicated to making money through illegal activities like producing and selling drugs, gambling or loan sharking . they were entirely disinterested in propagating their religion or punishing those who offend their prophet. On the other hand the Jihadists are VERY keen on Killing for their God and buying a place in heaven with the blood of unbelievers.

    Btw, Europe and the UK have thousands of years of history of civil unrest, war & terror – it is simply in their culture to be always fighting each other and among themselves, whereas in Australia we are just a tad more civilised and stable.

    And that is the very reason that I and the others here are concerned about importing people who are more likely than not to cause social disharmony I don’t want to be look at Australia after another decade of unfiltered immigration and find that we have the same issues that you acknowledge are problems elsewhere. .

    And I don’t need a lecture from you on what religion means, Iain. I find that rather patronising, as I do your footy analogy, which btw, you have got arse about. It is the Joffas of this world and most Collingwood supporters who are the “lesser creatures” but they have a right to exist and do not “destroy the game” – in fact without them it would be rather boring and there’d be no one to joke about.

    The point about both parts of my comment that you dislike is that those of a devoutly religious bent Like “Joffa”is not that they are good subjects for mirth and mockery but to point out that minds are very different to those of us with a far more secular way of thinking. Unless you can stand in their shoes and understnd How they think you just can’t possibly dismiss them as harmless.

  77. Tony says:

    I find it rather ironic, that every time Ray has had his argument defeated, he subtly changes it’s direction ?
    We have gone from Radical Islam to all Islam.
    We have gone from illegal immigration to ALL immigration
    We have gone from prudent immigration to racial discrimination

    All attempted “duck and cover” changes to your argument have been noticed and challenged Ray.

    You have been asked in your feel-good rebuttals, about what you would tell the families and relatives of the over 60 killed (and going up as they are still looking for more), as well as the over 200 + injured, and you have ignored it, and said nothing every time.

    What are you exactly defending in your argument here ?
    The right for all and sundry to come in, change the country to another copy of the society they just left in ruins, by whatever means they feel will achieve that aim ?

  78. tel says:

    It’s not individuals that are the problem – it’s Islam. What civilized society would give legal status to an organisation whose manifesto includes instructions to its followers to kill or subjugate anyone who disagrees with them. Wake up Australia. We need to outlaw Islam

  79. Ray Dixon says:

    Oh come on Iain, you’re splitting straws. Just how EXACTLY, would you discern which muslim immigrants should be excluded any better than what we currently do? I don’t want to get your back up but you are flip-flopping here big time. Either you want to ban all muslim immigrants (which I believe you do) or you trust in our authorities to protect us, which they ARE doing, despite your reference to a few petty try hards in jail (which kind of proves my point, doesn’t it?)

    Wake up Australia. We need to outlaw Islam

    Oh, another radical lunatic fringe dweller arrives on the scene. Hello Tel, pray tell us your plans on how to “outlaw Islam” (ie ban a religion and a group of people in Australia) and from whom you expect to get support?

  80. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    I want to make sure that the Jihadists are no threat here but you seem incapable of recognising the reality of the threat that they pose to a peaceful future for this country. I am willing to admit that I don’t have all of the answers but I do think that being openly critical of the excesses of Islam as I have repeatedly done here at the Sandpit is an important part of the solution because if we don’t make it clear which parts of the Islamic dogma that is unacceptable then the extremists of that faith and we all look the other way then that will be seen as tacit approval for further excesses.

    Look as I see it you can’t argue, as YOU do that it is “a barbaric and stone age religion” and then complain when others say the same thing and suggest that such a religion should only be tolerated IF its adherents are willing to live with the parts of our modern secular society that is at odds with that faith. In other words it is THEY who have to accommodate US and not the reverse. If they don;t think that our women should be scantily clad, well tough, likewise of we want to eat pork they will just have to cope with it.

  81. Ray Dixon says:

    Iain, I’m totally capable of recognising the threat from a few extremists and, likewise, so is our government. Are you saying you don’t trust your precious Coalition to keep up the good work of screening new arrivals and, therefore, it requires your intervention and advocacy to be ‘alert but not alarmed’? Sounds like it. I happen to think the Govt – despite it being led by a stunned mullet – and its agencies have the matter in hand, Iain, and they don’t need your help.

    And your last sentence suggests its not just “jihadists” you want to keep out. Look, “they” can think what they like about our “scantily clad” women, and they can think what they like about Aussies eating pork (although why you’d want to eat a pork chop or anything from a pig except bacon & ham is beyond me) but … well, you’re right – they’ll just have to cope with it. Somehow I think they will. They are rather petty objections, Iain.

    You’ve really left yourself with nowhere to go on this Iain – unless you want to join the lunatic fringe of Tad, Tel, Tony, & James. Do you really want to do that?

  82. Tony says:

    Or the arrogant, ignorant, political correctness, suckhole brigade like the Rays of our world perhaps ?
    Their heads so deep into the politics of the game, totally oblivious of the thousands of innocents that have died under the hands of these schoolyard thugs ?

    Open your eyes and nose, and smell what your shovelling Ray.

  83. James says:

    I don’t want my friends, my family in fact Australians and that includes some hypocrites I know to become part of Islams statistics.

    Murderous terror attacks committed by Islamic jihadists worldwide since 9/11: 21,000+

    Murderous terror attacks committed by “Islamophobes” worldwide since 9/11: 0

  84. James says:

    OK Ray, your beloved Labor mates and your Muslim mates all in bed together!!!

    Australia’s “Grand Mufti” threatens Labor over “pattern of blind bias toward Israel”

    Sydney based Grand Mufti Dr Ibrahim Abu Mohammed a senior Islamic cleric said community support for the ALP would be withdrawn if unionist Paul Howes took a senate seat expected to be left vacant by Bob Carr, in an email sent to Labor MPs. Grand Mufti of Australia Ibrahim Abu Mohammed, accused Howes of a pro-Israel bias.

    The email was sent to Jason Clare, the member for Blaxland, Tony Burke, the member for Watson, Julie Owens, the member for Parramatta, and Ed Husic, the member for Chifley, who all have a strong Islamic communities in their electorates.

    Paul has had a repeated pattern of blind bias toward Israel. His appointment would not at all help the ­engagement effort between the ALP and the wider Muslim community.

    As you know we have worked very hard to marshal our community to ­support and successfully retain the majority of ALP seats in Western ­Sydney against all odds, and the choice of Paul will threaten our efforts to maintain this momentum, especially if new elections are called in the next year.

    I urge you to help us help you and present our concerns to the decisionmakers at the ALP so they realise the potential consequences of such a ­controversial choice.

    Howes has never been to Israel. He released a statement denying any bias.

    Dr Ibrahim Abu Mohammed is anything but “moderate”, in December 2012 he went to Gaza to meet with Hamas headbangers ”to learn from Gaza, to learn steadfastness, sacrifice, and the defence of one’s rights from them”.

    The military wing of Hamas is listed as a proscribed terrorist organisation by the Australian Government.

    This terrorist sympathiser hangs out with proscribed terrorists and then threatens to withhold support from Labor props because he accuses them of being Israel friendly. How the hell did this cretin get his residency? Who rubber-stamped the visa for this blackmailing scumbag?

    Australia needs a “Grand Mufti” like Sydney needs a black sinkhole in place of the Opera House. His “Dr” title is not worth the paper it is written on, and he’s also behind the push for a mosque on every other street corner with the claim that more mosques are needed to stop young Muslims from becoming radicalised is an insult to all Australians.

  85. Ray Dixon says:

    Well, I actually agree with the Mufti about Howes. Not because he claims Howes allegedly supports Israel (my own position is I don’t support either side in the Middle Eastern conflict) but because Howes is a prick and is not, as far as I’m concerned, welcome in Federal Parliament. He, possibly more than anyone else, was instrumental in Gillard getting enough party support to knife Rudd in 2010, thereby throwing the ALP into such turmoil that it almost lost the 2010 election and ultimately – due to the ensuing leadership battle – led to the recent defeat. Stuff Howes, he might be a good union organiser but we don’t want his type (and Shorten) anywhere near the controls of ‘New Labor’. Hopefully Albo will win and we’ll see a total change of direction for the Party and the eradication of union influence from big timers like Howes. Sometimes, even an Islamic Mufti gets things right – if only by default. Was there some point you were trying to make, little man?

  86. Ray Dixon says:

    Tony, it’s really beneath me to get down in the gutter and respond to your constant rants, but you keep banging on about it so, hopefully, this will suffice:

    The events in Kenya were terrible atrocities committed by insurgents from another country, not by immigrants. Same goes for 9/11. Neither event has anything to do with Australia’s current immigration policies. If insurgents/terrorists want to infiltrate Australia and commit similar atrocities they will do it, regardless of our immigration laws and processes. They won’t come by boats. They won’t be refugees admitted under our programs or even immigrants accepted in the normal manner. They’ll fly in by other means, possibly under false passports on tourist or student visas and carry out their treachery – and your focus on immigration won’t stop that. Given they haven’t done that (and given there’s currently no indication and no likelihood they will), maybe you should stop carrying on like a hate-filled stuck record over the muslims we do admit.

    Now, as I’ve requested several times already, please take your frustrations, fears and panic-striken extremism out on someone else. I’m sick of your constant yelping and dog whistling. Leave me out of it, please.

  87. Tad Vinda (B. Bus) says:

    folks, ignore the mad “there is not a muslim problem” rants of ray dixon. by the time australia is swamped with towel heads and our kids are all wearing burkas and speaking arabic, people like ray dixon will have cashed in their bonds and flown off to sit on a beach on some exotic (non-muslim) country. this type of weasely liberal apologist for multiculturalism and religious fanatics would rather sell out his own race and country than pick up a gun and fight. no doubt if this was 1942 ray dixon would be saying that the japs are not interested in australia, that they will stop at new guinea and that the bombing of darwin was just a one off. my own opinion is that the doors should be closed to all sand monkeys unless they renounce allah and his pedo prophet. and if they show any disloyalty, the army needs target practise and the outback has a lot of sand that needs digging.

  88. Richard Ryan says:

    Christianity——-love thy neighbour, but not Muslims, snigger,snigger. Tad you are first on the hit list—a yellow gutless coward, physically repugnant, who hides behind a screen name— Next time you might be reincarnated as a human, you are a complete pig,oink-oink.I see your mother knew which sexual position produces the hideously ugliest repugnant cretin. Shalom, Richard Ryan.

  89. GD says:

    Ray said:

    They won’t be refugees admitted under our programs or even immigrants accepted in the normal manner. They’ll fly in by other means, possibly under false passports on tourist or student visas and carry out their treachery

    How can you be sure of that? How can you be so smugly complacent about Australia’s national security?

    Hundreds of our home-grown muslims are now fighting for Al-Qa’ida in Syria. What happens when they return to Australia? Do you honestly think they’ll drop all that murderous crap about killing each other and the infidel?

    Your smug complacency suggests you are either wilfully blind or delusional.

    BTW are these home-grown terrorists paid Centrelink benefits while fighting for Al-Qa’ida?

  90. Richard Ryan says:

    Iraq now in a complete shambles— AI-Qa’ida—sends out a million suicide bombers world -wide—pay pack time. 4000 civilians killed so far this year in Iraq. Of course the war-mongers will tell you things are so much better since the fall of Saddam, pull the other one cretins. No suicide bombers in Iraq when the dictator was in power, and America selling arms to Saddam, plus chemical weapons, when at war with Iran. ” Be alert, but not alarmed’, Australia is now a prime target, I can smell the fear in the air. Shalom infidels.

  91. Richard Ryan says:

    The moral of the story, it is a no-no to invade Muslim lands, it just creates more suicide bombers, such dedication, kill yourself for the cause. War and Terrorism much alike, the killing of the innocents.

  92. Richard Ryan says:

    The terrorist in a two piece suit with a PhD, with an Aussie accent, and can say G’day in several foreign lingos.

  93. Tony says:

    Now, as I’ve requested several times already, please take your frustrations, fears and panic-striken extremism out on someone else. I’m sick of your constant yelping and dog whistling. Leave me out of it, please.

    Now there sounds like someone yelping and dog whistling and sadly, sounds like someone living in abject fear of reprisals ?

    It just seems GD the man is living, with his head in a bucket. The old out of sight, out of mind trick. An apologist for jihad and mass murder, in the name of free speech and religion ?
    That is not only ignorant, and apathetic, but sad to be living in constant fear like that.

    Obviously, especially after Bali, it can’t/won’t see the threat(s) ahead. Again, obviously, he doesn’t see Australian freedoms, that we have fought many wars over to protect, as being worth fighting for anymore. He just wants to roll over on his back, and beg, please don’t hurt me, do what you like to anyone else, but don’t hurt ME

    As for me, and most others here, I prefer to stand up to these towelhead thugs, and call them out for what they are. Cowards ! Someone once said a long time ago, something along the lines of ?
    you slap my face, I break your legs ! and so on.

    The politically correct cowards of this world, as seen above, are so keen to be on everyone’s side, that sooner or later, by the time, they finally do make a decision, as to which side of the fence they are on, there is no fence left.
    That’s the danger here, APATHY like RD’s, and that is exactly what these thugs are feeding off.

  94. Iain Hall says:

    Ray

    Iain, I’m totally capable of recognising the threat from a few extremists and, likewise, so is our government. Are you saying you don’t trust your precious Coalition to keep up the good work of screening new arrivals and, therefore, it requires your intervention and advocacy to be ‘alert but not alarmed’? Sounds like it. I happen to think the Govt – despite it being led by a stunned mullet – and its agencies have the matter in hand, Iain, and they don’t need your help.

    It won’t be the MPs who will be responsible for rooting out the Jihadist Plotters it will be public servants in ASIO or the state police services who are always struggling with limited budgets and resources. Contrary to your opinion both the police services and ASIO would be entirely useless without the contributions of concerned citizens like yours truly to provide them with tips and information about the activities of plotters.

    And your last sentence suggests its not just “jihadists” you want to keep out. Look, “they” can think what they like about our “scantily clad” women, and they can think what they like about Aussies eating pork (although why you’d want to eat a pork chop or anything from a pig except bacon & ham is beyond me) but … well, you’re right – they’ll just have to cope with it. Somehow I think they will. They are rather petty objections, Iain.

    Remember those Danish cartoons Ray? they were a very good example of just how seemingly benign “devout ” Muslims try to intimidate all who challenge the secular values that we hold dear and to be honest if a Muslim immigrant can’t take such mockery of their religion then perhaps we have found our litmus test of just who we should allow to come to this country. Those who get angry at such mockery should be given a ticket to a place where they will be safe from our love of taking the piss out of everything, inducing the holy.

    You’ve really left yourself with nowhere to go on this Iain – unless you want to join the lunatic fringe of Tad, Tel, Tony, & James. Do you really want to do that?

    My position on Islam has been the same for many years Ray I have no need to go anywhere; while I agree with you about being fair to the followers of all faiths I also agree with other commentators that we should set a high bar for entry into this country so that we don’t import problems like those that are becoming ever more evident in the UK and Europe.

  95. Ray Dixon says:

    So you write this stuff to help out the Feds, Iain? I realise the authorities, as well as conducting investigations and undercover work, also get tipoffs about suspicious activities from the general public, but I hardly think they need your “tips” on how to do their job.

    And yes the reaction to the Danish cartoons (and to that US home video) were plain stupid but hardly grounds to ban muslims. You’ve gone full circle on this, Iain, and now you’re back to where you started – still calling for bans on muslims based on little more than misdemeanours and their beliefs.

    As for the “other commentators”, which part of what the lunatic fringe of Tad, Tony & James has said do you agree with? Not much sense coming out of that lot. I understand you wanting to have a foot in both camps but when one of those camps includes the slimy crap written by Tad, do you really want to align yourself with that type of bigotry?

    Not much more to be said here really, Iain. File this post under ‘Dog Whistles’ – ie you whistled and the mongrels like Tad came running.

    GD, have you written to your local MP yet? Not sure what to say? Here’s a suggestion:

    Dear Fiona ‘Sexy’ Scott,
    Firstly my congratulations on clearing the clogged roads of Western Sydney of boat people. Now that you’re our MP do you think you could use your sex appeal on Tony to get him to increase the entry level test on muslim immigration? I hear he’s partial to a blonde. Btw, when you’re in his office propositioning him just check under his desk first in case Peta has already beaten you to it.
    Your admiring lapdog,
    GD
    (PS: I’m writing a song about you)

  96. Tony says:

    Wow, there is that wicked streak of condescension again.

    Can’t win the argument, attack those that legitimately defeated you, in any way you can.
    Yep, that’s the way to win an argument in Ray Dixon’s world.

  97. Ray Dixon says:

    And there’s the streak of false chest-thumping and false claims of “victory” by you, Tony. Seriously, you haven’t won any argument – we just have differing points of view, mine being the more central and moderate one, yours being way out there on the unsupported far right lunatic fringe. But hey, if you want to run around the oval claiming “I won” (while the other lunatics here cheer you on) that’s fine by me. As I said, just leave me out of it, you psycho.

  98. James says:

    Here’s a thought, how about we encourage the building of Australias largest Mosque with Australias largest car park in #Gavan Street, Bright, VIC. then see what tune is played.

  99. Iain Hall says:

    Ray

    So you write this stuff to help out the Feds, Iain? I realise the authorities, as well as conducting investigations and undercover work, also get tipoffs about suspicious activities from the general public, but I hardly think they need your “tips” on how to do their job.

    I write this stuff because my muse moves me to do so Ray and if it helps the feds to do their job that is a bonus but it is not the reason for me writing.

    And yes the reaction to the Danish cartoons (and to that US home video) were plain stupid but hardly grounds to ban muslims. You’ve gone full circle on this, Iain, and now you’re back to where you started – still calling for bans on muslims based on little more than misdemeanours and their beliefs.


    Tell that to those who were murdered and those in protection because of explicit threats that is a small thing ” misdemeanours and their beliefs”

    As for the “other commentators”, which part of what the lunatic fringe of Tad, Tony & James has said do you agree with? Not much sense coming out of that lot. I understand you wanting to have a foot in both camps but when one of those camps includes the slimy crap written by Tad, do you really want to align yourself with that type of bigotry?

    Its not bigotry to suggest that there is a problem with the ideology of Islam which even you agree is a “brutal stone age religion” yet you chide all who criticize any aspect of the faith.What I share with the lads is a real concern about the spread of this pernicious religion. Where I am different is that I am not at all keen to see our country become as totalitarian as Islam itself to do so.

    Not much more to be said here really, Iain. File this post under ‘Dog Whistles’ – ie you whistled and the mongrels like Tad came running.

    Better to call pot the dogs than to whimper in fear every time a Muslim is “offended”

  100. James says:

    An update from just 10 mins ago about those lovely friends of yours Ray from Kenya;

    A KENYAN doctor has told of finding eyes, ears and noses torn from the bodies of hostages recovered from Nairobi’s Westgate Mall.

    The doctor told Kenya’s The Star newspaper that the hostages had been tortured before being killed.

    “Those are not allegations. Those are f****ng truths,” the emotional doctor is reported as saying.

    “They removed (testicles), eyes, ears, nose. They get your hand and sharpen it like a pencil then they tell you to write your name with the blood. They drive knives inside a child’s body. Actually if you look at all the bodies, unless those ones that were escaping, fingers are cut by pliers, the noses are ripped by pliers.”

    The doctor, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the condition of the bodies was worse than those he had seen after a 2009 oil tanker explosion in Sachangwan claimed 139 lives.

    The doctor said he had been sent into the mall yesterday to help forensic examinations and remove bodies.

    He described a scene where every body had to be examined by the bomb squad because of the fear of booby traps..

    “They have to move toe after toe, leg after leg,” he said. “And where the bodies were stacked up it is very tricky, so you have to be very smart.”

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/world-news/nairobi-westgate-mall-survivor-tells-i-used-dead-teens-blood-to-fool-terrorists/story-fndir2ev-1226727931521#ixzz2g3fh4xSS

    Just the chance that anyone associated with these murders could become a resident here in Australia is just too much of a risk.

  101. Tad Vinda (B. Bus) says:

    listen to the stupidity and the hypocrisy of the leftard posting as ray dixon. after the a.l.p. has spent the last three years complaining about sexism in politics, ray dixon is making jokes about a female liberal m.p. and tony abbott’s female advisor being under the desk giving head jobs. the only one here giving any head jobs is certain leftards who are so in love with allah and his disciples that they want to open the floodgates and let them into this great country. we already have enough muslim rapists and wanna be terrorists here thanks mr dixon, we dont need any more. as for calling people “psycho” i am thinking there must be no mirrors in your house.

  102. Ray Dixon says:

    Tell that to those who were murdered

    Iain, who has been murdered in Australia by muslim immigrants?

    Better to call pot the dogs than to whimper in fear every time a Muslim is “offended”

    Iain, your whole stance here (and those of the lunatics you now chummily refer to as just “lads”) is one based in fear. Think about what you’re saying here; you are writing about an event in Africa – an atrocity of the highest magnitude – committed by insurgents. You use that to call for a ban (or at least a crack down) on muslims in Australia. But there is simply no correlation between the Kenyan event and the activities of those muslims living in Australia. There is no justifiable cause for your anger and hatred towards people here, simply because they follow the same faith that some insurgent, radical terrorists follow and falesly use to carry out their blood lust. And our authorities are well aware of the need to weed out any muslim arrivals who are likely to be a problem.

    And if I were ‘in fear’ of the muslims in Australia I’d be one of you’re lunatic “lads” expressing extreme bigotry on your blog. Thankfully, I’m not. This is certainly a ‘dog whistle’ post of yours, Iain, and why you want the likes of Tad & James (Tony too) using such bigotted language is your call mate but it ain’t a good look. Quite frankly, it’s hate speech and some of it is probably in breach of racial vilification laws. It’s no wonder the more moderate voices out there are staying away in droves – this is a circle jerk of hard rightwing nutters.

    James, you anonymous coward, the terrorists in Kenya are not my “friends” and I’ll thank you to stop referring to me as some kind of sympathiser for extremists and murderers. You, on the other hand, are far out on the extreme right (lunatic) fringe, so much so that you obviously tar anyone who doesn’t agree with your bigotted and extreme views as a “leftist”, or a “friend of terror”. That is just plain nuts, buddy, because guess what? 99%+ of other people don’t agree with you and would not give your idiotic rants the time of day. So, as I’ve said to Tony here, just leave me out of your stupid commentary and take your frustrated, loopy anger out on someone else. And get a backbone and identify yourself before you take me on, you coward – okay?

  103. James says:

    the terrorists in Kenya are not my “friends”

    Well Ray we’ve only got your word for that, the way I read things around here, looking very shaky, mate, very shaky.

    James, you anonymous coward

    Ray I’ll have you know, I haven’t been afraid of the dark, since, well since I guess about when I turned 9 from memory.

    And get a backbone and identify yourself

    And just what do you want to know Ray?

  104. PKD says:

    I am with Ray on this one.

    Putting extremist nutters at the door of a main stream religion simply gives oxygen to their cause.

    Because James / Tony, is it fair to put the actions of Christian extremists as being reflective of Christian values?

    Are you happy to blame Christianity for the actions of Breivik, the KKK, the NMCA, the NLFT, the Lords Resistance Army to name but a few examples of recent terrorists who claim their actions in the name of Jesus?

    Fundamentalists who terrorise in the name of Islam are no more Islamic that those who terrorise in the name of Christianity.

    Whats more worrying is the mentality of people who readily prosecute this anti-Islam line in their eagerness to bash a whole religion when they know full well the vast majority of Muslims practice their religion peacefully – just like Christians.

    Are you those kinds of people Iain / James / Tony???

  105. Tony says:

    Again the identity challenge.
    Again the personal abuse…… And get a backbone and identify yourself before you take me on, you coward – okay?

    You really are losing it Ray. Perhaps it is time to take up knitting, and give blogging away for a while. You have proven here that you really can’t handle the tough discussions, without foaming at the mouth when you lose ?
    Taking you on, not tough, only takes thirty seconds to reduce any argument from you, to confetti. You’d make a great politician, but everyone hates you, so you wouldn’t get any votes I guess.

    So, we want to protect our wives, our kids, and especially daughters, going about their business on a saturday night, from being accosted by gangs of “fashion police”, and we are the ones that are bigoted ?

    Your 99% figure is pure, unadulterated bullsh*t old man. Nothing but a made up figure, in an attempt to make you appear relevant.
    Well, guess what, the 99%, be it known, in reality, would appear the other way around. That is why the politicians have never asked the question in a poll, nor referenda. They know what the answer would be, so do you come to think of it.

    I’ll play James’ game as well to feed your paranoid delusions ?

    And get a backbone and identify yourself

    And just what do you want to know Ray?

  106. Tony says:

    We have all said here PKD that Christianity has it’s faults, only too happy to agree to that.

    BUT, we are as a society, attempting to deal with those mistakes. I mentioned the damage done by the Catholic church above, as an example of what does happen. That is not our problem. Our problem with radical Islam, is the way that everything has to be their way, or the highway. In other words, convert to Islam, or be killed. That is the problem here, and one none of you have an answer for, other than, cluck cluck it will never happen here. Wake up !

    I haven’t heard of the KKK blowing up shopping centres recently PKD. There are a few of these organisations in Eu for example, the German thing not so long ago, but all in all, these instances are becoming more isolated. Where as Islamic attacks/retaliations are becoming more and more prevalent.

    I have said time and time again here, that Islam is not the problem. Those ratbags that are running it are. If one comes here, and tells me to bow, and pray towards mecca half a dozen times a day, or else be shuffled off into the night, sorry, but you bet there is going to be a problem, a real big one.

  107. PKD says:

    Tony, whilst we are lucky in that there are certainly fewer ‘Christian’ fundamentalists carrying out acts of terrorism than Islamic ones right now in the present day, Christiainity has a lot of past blood on its hands. So don’t get complacent with the Christian extremists either. It is important too keep these religious nutters beliefs spearate to peaceful maintstram religion they are trying to subvert – whatever the religion.

    Whilst a peaceful Imam may like you to convert, they not certainly going to behead you or threaten you if you don’t.
    The ones that do are no more Islamic than Christian fundamentalist clerics.

    But you don’t seem very clear in previous comments in separating out the views of the extremists from the real moderate faith when it comes to Islam.
    Like I said, I bet you wouldn’t be happy for extremist Chrisitian views to be clouded with mainstream Christianity.

    The key to winning against these Islamist extremists is to isolate them and condemn them separate to the main religion, just as the KKK has successfully become more isloted and removed from real Christianity since its mid 20th century heyday. Agree / disagree?

  108. Tony says:

    I do, for sure.
    I put up a couple of you tube clips, of exactly what I was talking about earlier in the thread, no body watched or cared by the looks of it.

    It’s not just islam either.
    The seventh day adventists know that this is a place NOT to bother calling on, and haven’t seen one of those, for quite a few years now ?
    😆

    The christian faith is just as guilty with it’s off shoot cults, but we are dealing with those now as well. The arrests over in the US over the last couple of years, indicate that they are also beginning to deal with the problem ? Why shouldn’t we deal with radical imams and islamic sects in the same manner ?

    You protector’s of the faith seem to be loathe (or perhaps dare I say it, squeamish ?) to come to the final decision, that needs to be done, for the common good of ALL !

  109. PKD says:

    So you wouldn’t mind if a mosque opened next door to you provided it was a tolerant and maintstream one that condemned the extremist Islamic fundamentalists?

    You’d be happy with a few hundred mainstream Muslims going past your house every day to pray peacefully next door?

  110. Tony says:

    If they behaved themselves, didn’t yell out in the middle of the night, or at dawn, just like living next to a christian church, then no hassles from me.

    Again, my argument is not with Islam in general, rather, radical islam, or those local imams that think their position in the public eye deserves a boost ? You know, those ones, too gutless to strap the explosives to their own chests, rather, strap it to 15 year old kids, to do their gutless bidding for them ?

  111. Tony says:

    I ask you the same question PKD ?

  112. Richard Ryan says:

    I liken bloggers who use screen names to a tin of baked beans—wondering which one caused the fart, gee! Ray you got this lot wound up, I bet this lot have to sit on the toilet bowl to have a piss. Piss weak the lot of them. No name, no principle.

  113. Ray Dixon says:

    I only suggested you have the backbone to identify yourself, James, to point out that you don’t have the balls to comment under your real name (let alone, show your real face). I don’t want to know who you are, because I already know you are a snivelling coward who doesn’t have the gumption to ‘own his own words’ (as Iain would say). Just imagine what your family, neighbours and friends (if you have any) would think about you if they read what you put up here. You’d be persona non grata pretty damn quickly. Your own wife (if you have one) would be ashamed and revolted. So would your kids. No wonder you remain anonymous (like Tad & Tony do) because that’s the only way you can feel free to spit out your bile, hate & invective. You’re a little man James – not game enough to come out of the shadows. You’re a lightweight mate and I play people like you (and Tad & Tony) on a break.

  114. PKD says:

    Sure, I treat all religions equally, I don’t mind.

    I’m just not so sure you are quite as welcoming towards Islam as you claim.

  115. Tony says:

    Again, for upteenth time Ray, leave me out of your b/s identity games, every time you get your backside kicked in an argument.
    For god’s sake give it a bloody rest will you ?

    To me PKD it doesn’t matter what religion you are.
    That is a personal choice, as it should be ? I grew up in Melbourne, and in each suburb, as you probably know, you had churches of all faiths. None of which felt it necessary to have the propaganda campaigns, nor quests for domination, that we are seeing from radical islam ?

    I am of the belief, that each to his own, until it affects me an mine.
    Then the gloves are off.

    I wonder, in reality, would you be any different ?

  116. James says:

    Class Ray, you’re all Class, you just demonstrated that.

    You and Richard deserve each other, you show such refinement, just a pity that you both lack education and parental upbringing, and your mother obviously couldn’t offer you an explanation about your father.

  117. Ray Dixon says:

    James, you have no “refinement” whatsoever and, more importantly, no self esteem and no self respect. If you did, you wouldn’t be afraid to comment under your real identity. Instead, you hide behind anonymity … shitting yourself!

  118. GD says:

    I treat all religions equally, I don’t mind.

    PKD, all religions aren’t equal. Even a glancing look at Islam would show you that it is by far the most horrific and evil religion/ideology in existence today.

    Female genital mutilation, oppressive treatment of women in general, death for homosexuals, a Koran led advocacy to establish a Caliphate primarily by killing all non-believers. I don’t see Christians or Hindus or Buddhists demanding those atrocities.

    Add to that the massive Muslim outrage at Western society, with suicide bombers, 9/11, the London tube terrorist attack, the Boston Marathon bombing, the Bali bombings, the recent horrific Kenyan shopping centre massacre.

    Unfortunately Australia is foolishly importing this filth into, and paying them to live in, our society.

    And you reckon all religions are equal.

  119. GD says:

    Quite frankly, it’s hate speech and some of it is probably in breach of racial vilification laws

    No Ray, it’s not, however it would have been if your Labor pals had their way. Fortunately Roxon fell on her sword realising that, unlike you Ray, most Australians don’t brand different opinions as ‘hate speech’ or racist attacks.

  120. GD says:

    there is simply no correlation between the Kenyan event and the activities of those muslims living in Australia.

    Yes there is Ray. It is the Koran. The ideology that destroys nations. You ignored my comment earlier which said:

    Hundreds of our home-grown muslims are now fighting for Al-Qa’ida in Syria. What happens when they return to Australia? Do you honestly think they’ll drop all that murderous crap about killing each other and the infidel?

    Where did these home-grown young men get their anti-Australian ideas from? I’d suggest the Mosque and the Koran.

    Where did the home-grown young men rioting in Sydney over a cartoon get their anti-Australian ideas from? I’d suggest the Mosque and the Koran.

    There clearly is a correlation with overseas Islamic terrorism and young Australian muslims’ attitude to the country of their birth or adoption.

    We need to beware and we are right to be aware.

    Labelling anyone who questions Islamic immigration as ‘racist’ or ‘bigoted’ is shutting down debate about this imperative and important issue.

    Australians are allowed to, and must be allowed to, question who comes to this country without being deemed racists or hate-mongers.

  121. Tony says:

    Whether fortunate, or unfortunate GD, we have certain hard fought freedoms in this country. Those include freedom of speech as well as another freedom of religion

    I have no problems with either, <strong< BUT incitement to violence (or worse), is still a criminal offence in this country, so under those grounds, radical Islam becomes a dangerous cult, and should be stomped on big time. The local run of the mill Islam, even though not to my taste, is usually a peaceful religion. So, under those terms, should be allowed to continue. That is not where the problems inherently lie ?

    Where do you draw the line, and who is responsible for drawing it ?

    I agree, that Australians should not only be allowed to question who comes into this country, but me must do so !
    Over the centuries, there has been some seriously bad s*it go down, under the guise of religious freedom. We have sat back, gone “cluck cluck”, and done nothing, and of course the above event (and many others ?) is the end game. The line must be drawn here, between those religious freedoms, and common sense boundaries, that MUST be enforced.

  122. Ray Dixon says:

    GD,
    The (very few) Australian born muslims fighting in the civil war in Syria are not fighting in (or against) Australia. And when (and if) they return home there’s no reason to think they’ll then turn their attention to killing Australians. Even David Hicks is no threat back here. But I agree that they’re misguided and, quite frankly, I question their maturity and allegiances. And if they’ve broken any Aussie laws by effectively aiding Al Qaeda, then I’d fully endorse them being charged and sentenced. You’re drawing a pretty long bow to suggest any of that means we need a crackdown on further muslim immigration though. Do you apply the same criteria to Australian born Jews who go off (in regular and large numbers) and fight for Israel?

    As for the ‘cartoon protests’, that’s hardly unAustralian or a reason for banning muslims. Public protests are as Australian as meat pies and they often become rowdy, ugly and riotous. I don’t condone that particular protest or the signage but if you take that as a serious warning sign you’re seeing it through prejudiced eyes. The signs (and a lot of the speech) at the ‘No Carbon Tax’ rally were pretty offensive too, but I seem to recall you endorsing them. In the late 60s & early 70s I saw some pretty offensive signs directed at our government and the USA over Vietnam. I also saw a few riots and violence among the crowd and against the police. The older generations called us unAustralian too but we had a right to protest, didn’t we? Or do you not agree that that is part of our way of life, our culture? The muslims protesting that cartoon (or that home video) are just carrying on the tradition of Aussies protesting things they don’t like, GD, yet you see it as anti-Australian.

    And you can call the words of your chums here just “opinions” but quite a bit of it is indeed hate speech and would appear to be inciting violence. Stuff like this:

    From Tony:
    “Put a shotgun up thir heiny and pull the trigger !”

    Worse still from Tad:
    “the only good allah freak is a dead one”
    “we dont need any more arab filth in this country”
    “f**k allah and the pedo mohammed and their twisted medeval ideology.”
    “we need to wage war on this pernicious cult and we need to do it now. yes it will involve blood shed but so be it. in 1945-46 we gave germans an option, either renounce nazism or be starved to death, if we dont shoot you first. the same approach needs to be employed re islam. as for the sand monkeys who come illegally on boats, a few severed heads on pikes on christmas island along with warning signs (in england and arabic) warning them that australia is a democratic judeo-christian country and does not tolerate terrorists, forehead knockers, polygamists or child rapists.”

    Warmly endorsed by James:
    “Well said TV, what do we do about local sympathisers like RD, same treatment?”

    Charming stuff. No “hate speech” there, GD? No “inciting violence”? Give me a break. At least you have moderated your own speech here but your recent comment in reply to PKD, “Australia is foolishly importing this filth into, and paying them to live in, our society” is a pretty low swipe at muslims in general.

    The one thing you and the three “chums” Tad, Tony & James have in common (apart from an obvious hatred of muslims) is your anonymity. Okay, you are known to a handful of people, GD, but even you have said you don’t want your comments here associated with your real life because you fear people wouldn’t want to know you or do business with you if they knew you held such extreme and hateful views. As for the other 3 “chums”, they’re clearly a bunch of cowards who hide behind anonymity on the Internet to spread their anti-muslim bile and invective.

    I reckon that’s going a lot further than just expressing “opinion” and is indeed bigotted.

  123. Tony says:

    How very true James, unfortunately.

    I suppose the reason, as to why some people have to be anonymous here Ray, is because of your s*alking and abuse, whenever your argument fails to present, even the simplest of logic, gets defeated.

    All to feed your uneducated, misdirected, and ginormous ego. You selectively quote portions of people’s responses, and then go off on some holy jihad, attacking the person, without even knowing anything about what the comment is about, all in pursuit, of appearing well balanced, and non discriminatory, even after we have explained the comment to you many times.

    Again, dear Ray, you are confusing genuine hatred, for those that would cut our heads off, quicker than we could spurt out the words political correctness with everybody. Another great left wing trait.

    Again, you are confusing hatred for all Muslums, with the ones, that on a public street, would physically shuffle our daughters, into an alley, for wearing a simple mini skirt. Watching them suffer the anguish of being threatened, and physically manhandled ? If you think my anger towards someone who attempted that with my daughter is discriminatory, then sorry, guilty as charged. Talking about holy jihads. If some towel head even went within 50 feet of my daughter, with that aim in mind, then you bet there would be a problem. If you come back and say it doesn’t happen in Australia, then again, you are living with your head up your a*se !

    Your questions/concerns have been answered by all of us, at least twice above, and you have ignored the answers, and continued your little tirades of abuse, just in an attempt to appear non discriminatory. Must give you a great ‘fuzzy’ moment when you do so, especially when you are wrong ? 😆

    Over 60 dead, more than three times that injured, and Ray just sits back and goes cluck cluck, it’s not here, don’t worry about it, then scurries back to the hole in the ground he lives in, sure in the knowledge he is beyond reach there. Fine, you’re safe ducky, what about the rest of the people on this planet, that don’t follow this faith, what about them ? We’re getting emotional, frantic, panicking ? You honestly think that is going to be the end of it ?

    All most of us have asked, is for a little more prudence before accepting immigrants, from wherever they come, so as our society, which was a great one, never ends up like the Beirut’s of the world. At that, you have shot up, and barked racist racist, a typical lefty feel good response, started the abuse, challenge everyone’s identity, then shot back into the rock you just crawled out of.

    Whether you like it or not Ray, we have freedom of speech in this country, and you have to get used to the fact, that there are literally thousands of Australians, just as worried in the direction this country is headed. As such, we not only have the right to stand up and say “no more” but it is our responsibility to do so.

    Iain ?
    As the Romulans once ordered Picard

    Captain, silence your dog !

  124. James says:

    Here’s two news items that obviously some people here wouldn’t have bothered about, the latest one today 28th September 2013…..

    SMH June 27, 2013

    MORE than 100 extremists capable of violent radicalism are entrenched in western Sydney, a Muslim cleric claimed last night.

    A western Sydney imam has revealed his losing battle turning young Muslim extremists back from the brink of terrorism.

    Exposing the scale of the problem, moderate imam Afroz Ali said he was losing the battle to turn 120 extremists at this Lakemba-based organisation back from the brink.

    Imam Afroz left the federal government-backed National Imam’s Consultative Forum in April in no doubt how worried Australia should be about the young radicals.

    “We have had a program for the last seven years now in which we have had 240 people who were considered to be moving in a direction which may have led them to violent radicalisation – to terrorism,” Imam Afroz told the national forum.

    “What we have found is, of the 240 people, 120, exactly half of them, are people who have changed their thinking, their mindset. That is something that I don’t necessarily share too widely in public, but I am happy to share it here.”

    AND TODAY!

    SMH September 28, 2013

    A SYDNEY man with “demonstrated connections” to one of the world’s most wanted terrorist preachers has been arrested by police over allegations he broke into a cash machine.

    Milad bin Ahmad-Shah al-Ahmadzai was arrested after three other men were prevented from robbing a cash van at gunpoint in western Sydney yesterday.

    Mr al-Ahmadzai, 21, is alleged by ASIO to have had contact with the Yemen-based al-Qaeda preacher Anwar al-Awlaki.

    Awlaki is of great concern to intelligence agencies due to his ability to use the internet to radicalise young Muslim men in Western countries. He is seen as such a threat that last year he was placed on a CIA “catch or kill” list.

    Last year Mr al-Ahmadzai was one of 23 Australian residents whom ASIO judged of such concern that it alerted US authorities to them. But yesterday morning Mr al-Ahmadzai was in a different type of trouble, arrested by detectives from the NSW police robbery squad at his home in Ermington.

    These are people in one part of Sydney that are known about. What about the sleepers? What about other towns and cities across the country? And don’t say this is just isolated, if this situation exists in one part of Sydney, there is no reason why this isn’t typical across Australia.

  125. Tony says:

    Nice come back James, but we all know that he doesn’t read informed/accurate responses especially if they reduce his tirades to the inevitable dribble fest ?

    I don’t think your two instances are that isolated either come to that ?

    It appears, unfortunately, that this instance in Kenya, is merely the beginning of another campaign, mounted by extremist Islam, in their pursuit of bringing the western world to its knees. Again, it is unfortunate, that those feel good lefties of the world, don’t see this for what it is, and the inherent dangers that are at play here, by ignoring that threat ?

  126. Ray Dixon says:

    Tony, I have merely attacked your opinions and attitudes. Your “stalking & abuse” retort is not only unwarranted, it’s totally offensive. When you come back with anonymous crap like that you’re just not worth engaging. Go to hell.

  127. Iain Hall says:

    I would have thought that you would be glued to the game Ray….

  128. Tony says:

    Tony, I have merely attacked your opinions and attitudes. Your “stalking & abuse” retort is not only unwarranted, it’s totally offensive. When you come back with anonymous crap like that you’re just not worth engaging. Go to hell.

    Don’t like getting some of your abuse back in your face ?
    Deal with it.

    Perhaps, find a better response to the hundreds of families affected by this mass murder, in the name of religion ?

  129. Tony says:

    that’s a good move, put those who stand up to your abuse on moderation.
    good move that one, pretty fair if you ask me ?

  130. Tony says:

    Apologies Iain, it is in the quote of Ray.
    I keep forgetting his words don’t catch askimet as our’s do ?

  131. Tony says:

    Repeated for you Ray

    Tony, I have merely attacked your opinions and attitudes. Your “st*lking & abuse” retort is not only unwarranted, it’s totally offensive. When you come back with anonymous crap like that you’re just not worth engaging. Go to hell.

    Don’t like getting some of your abuse back in your face ?
    Deal with it.

    Perhaps, find a better response to the hundreds of families affected by this mass murder, in the name of religion ?

  132. Tad Vinda (B. Bus) says:

    ray dixon follows the model of other precious and immature leftards. he comes up with ridiculous theories about how muslims are no danger and how we should welcome them into our country with open arms. and then when he is correctly shouted down by more intelligent people, he starts up with abuse and insults and conspiracy theories about identities. what a goose. i am not sure why he bothers posting here because most/all of the commenters seem like sensible conservatives, while ray dixon is just another foaming left-wit. then again almost every good conservative blog does have its resident leftie nutter, for entertainment value.

  133. Iain Hall says:

    Sorry Tony but “stalking” is in the banned list

  134. Tad Vinda (B. Bus) says:

    “These are people in one part of Sydney that are known about. What about the sleepers? What about other towns and cities across the country? And don’t say this is just isolated, if this situation exists in one part of Sydney, there is no reason why this isn’t typical across Australia.”

    james when they come into the country speaking any gibberish language other than english, it is impossible to know what they are doing or planning. we have problems here in northern suburbs of melbourne with all different breeds of allah licker, inc. pakis, iraqis, afghans, somalis. the problem is that they cluster in their mosques, ghettos and kebab shops and chant “death to america” and plot god knows what. sure asio will pick up many/most of their schemes but its the one they miss that we should be worried about. a homegrown terrorist attack here is coming and when it does, it will be time for the towelheads and their warped religion and their apologists to pay the piper.

  135. James says:

    Very noticable how Mr Dixon couldn’t pass one of his obscure comments on the Lakemba Mosque Imam whose has been up front that they do have a problem with young people that have the potential to be future terrorists. That one was all to hard.

  136. Tony says:

    that’s why I apologised, sorry about that. I was quoting Ray, and obviously, it doesn’t affect him ?

  137. Tony says:

    You mean like Bali Tad ?

  138. James says:

    Please do not disturb for the next couple of hours thankyou, we have a very important game of Rugby League to be played between the poor old Roosters and the Mighty Newcastle Knights.

    All the support you care to offer the Mighty Newcastle Knights would be appreciated.

    Should be more interesting than that silly Aerial Ping-pong this afternoon that some people try to pass off as football .

  139. Tony says:

    shame on you ! 😦

  140. GD says:

    The problem is that in every Muslim community in every western country once they reach a certain critical mass they start to get very Bolshie about imposing their values on everyone else. From wanting Halal food everywhere to describing western women as “cats meat” because they do not subscribe to their own fear of the flesh.

    Pertinent comment Iain.

    It’s the ‘give an inch, take a mile’ precept. This is the Islamic modus operandi.

    Unfortunately, it is clear that leftist governments in the West are only all too willing to hand over the rights of their citizens to Islamic incursion and intimidation.

    For some unknown reason leftards regard this as a good thing.

    It belies belief. Ray Dixon is a prime example:

    ‘Nothing to see here, move along, no cause for alarm’.

    A paraphrase but nonetheless a true summation of his pro-Muslim attitude and denial of its subsequent problems.

  141. Iain Hall says:

    Its hardly rocket science GD, if the experience elsewhere is that there is a consistent problem why should we expect anything different in this country when precisely the same ingredients are in play here? Sadly its a triumph of vain hope over observable facts as far as I can see.

  142. James says:

    For those of us who keep abreast of current news we’d be aware of the troubles on the Gold Coast on Friday night with bikers running rampant at a Family Restaurant where ordinary family groups were terrorised and then the same gang moved on to raid the Gold Coast Police station.

    Like we are seeing at Biker related shootings and stabbings etc. around the country, the footage shot for the news at these events always shows Towel Heads in numbers are there participating.

    The Gold coast bulletin, local paper highlighted some of the Coats problems just a little earlier this month:

    Soldiers of Islam Biker Gang Terrorizes Australia’s Gold Coast

    Four bikies, believed to be from the new gang Soldiers of Islam, have been arrested after a wild brawl at Mermaid Tavern this afternoon.

    Soldiers of Islam, also known as Sons of Islam, is believed to be an offshoot of outlaw bikie gang the Bandidos, which has a clubhouse at Mermaid Beach on the Gold Coast.

    Sources say the gang, comprising young Muslim men who sport “SOI” tattoos, has sprung up on the Glitter Strip in recent years.

    Soldiers of Islam appears to be made up of former Iraqi soldiers which is one of those benefits of welcoming immigrants from broken parts of the world.

    Police have discovered pictures of Osama bin Laden at a Gold Coast home linked to a worrying new bikie gang called Soldiers of Islam, whose members include former Iraqi soldiers.

    Photos of the fugitive Al Qa’ida leader were found recently at the home of a gang member during a criminal investigation.

    “They are associated with the Bandidos. Some of the members are ex-Iraqi soldiers with weapons training, so it’s quite a worry.”

    Middle Eastern gangs, while active in Sydney, have only recently been making their presence felt in Queensland and particularly on the Gold Coast.

    The Bandidos started out in the United States, but the Australian version leans Middle Eastern and Muslim. Australia’s organized crime is thick with Lebanese. They spun off from the Comancheros, whose president is Mahmoud Hawi.

    And it gets better

    They call themselves MBM – the Muslim Brotherhood Movement – a gang of 600 men who boast they are the toughest and best young street fighters of Middle Eastern descent in Sydney.

    MBM claims to be the biggest of four new gangs to emerge on Sydney streets in the past year. Its numbers rival those of the state’s largest bikie gang, the Rebels.

    The sudden appearance of MBM, with its growing membership recruited predominantly from the city’s south-western suburbs, has alarmed senior police already battling to combat open warfare among outlaw motorbike gangs.

    Even hardened private security guards have expressed concern to police about the indiscriminate “punch and run” tactics of MBM members who, in the past two weeks, have arrived in large numbers at city nightclub venues and who walk the streets in intimidating mobs. But the objectives of MBM – its emblem features two crossed pistols and a hand grenade – and its leadership remain unclear to officers of both the Organised Crime and Gang Squad and Middle Eastern Organised Crime Squad.

    Note in the attached picture, the Muslim Brotherhood logo up top with the Koran and the Harley Davidson. The Muslim Brotherhood finally has its own biker gang.

    Of course we don’t have a problem that is creeping it’s way around the country, course not!!!!!!

    http://frontpagemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/241626-bikie-recruits.jpghttps://iainhall.wordpress.com/wp-admin/edit-comments.php#comments-form

  143. Ray Dixon says:

    This has become farcical now, Iain. Not only are you allowing disgraceful & bigotted comments from extreme right wingers, you’re allowing “Tony” to accuse me of stalking people on the Internet without pulling him up on such an outrageous accusation. You’ve got a gang mentality going on here, Iain, not a debate. The disrespect for others opinions, the personal abuse and the extreme bigotry you’re allowing here does not appeal one litlle bit and does not encourage a rational debate or anyone else from a more moderate position to join in. There’s no point anyone expressing an opposing opinion here, Iain , because you’ve let the nutters take over. As far as I’m concerned, under the current climate, iainhall.wordpress.com is a no-go zone.

  144. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    You give as good as you get mate and no where is that more evident than in this thread. That said I am sorry that you feel upset about my light touch in terms of trying to control what other commentators say to you I naturally disagree with the accusation you mention but feel that it is not something that I need to act on.

  145. Tony says:

    Talking about crocodile tears ?

    I apologise Ray, if my attempt to stand up to your lack of knowledge, your unending intimidation tactics when you lose, has made you uneasy, and apparently fearful ?

    Every one of us, that has had the guts to pull you up, on your unsubstantiated arguments here, has had their identities challenged, been accused of all sorts of unsubstantiated name calling, as well as the usual Ray Dixon personality assassination attempts.

    Please don’t cry to the moderator, every time someone has the guts to call you on your behaviour, and especially
    when you get some of your own treatment back in your face !

  146. James says:

    Someone having a BIG dummy spit

  147. Tad Vinda (B. Bus) says:

    “As far as I’m concerned, under the current climate, iainhall.wordpress.com is a no-go zone.”

    does this mean ray dixon wont be back? good. it is a shame to come here and read intelligent and thoughtful comments from people like iain, tony, james and g.d., only to have this annoying and obtuse leftard telling us that we are all “nutters” for wanting to protect the australian way of life. any one who cuddles up to muslim scum and wants to usher them into our country in their thousands is a national disgrace and a race traitor. i would bet my last dollar that ray dixon doesnt live within 100kms of a towel head enclave and therefore has no idea the problems this filth cause where ever they congregate in numbers.

  148. GD says:

    “As far as I’m concerned, under the current climate, iainhall.wordpress.com is a no-go zone.”

    Perhaps, Ray, you’d feel more at home with erudite bloggers like this lunatic.

    or then there’s this tax-payer funded leftard blog, the Conversation.

    It’s a bugger that the government doesn’t sponsor conservative commentary, but then again the federal election made up for that, showing that most voters prefer a conservative approach to government, instead of leftard ideology and its so-called progressive social engineering.

  149. Iain Hall says:

    While it is very easy to take one of two responses to the threat of Islam, either going into denial (“most Muslims are peaceful ect”) or into rabid hatred suggesting that All Muslims are terrorists the truth is actually somewhere in the middle ground. The Faith itself is the problem and those who actually follow its teachings rather than just being “cultural” Muslims who live more secular lives are clearly less likely to follow thorough with its pernicious instructions in their treatment of unbelievers. As I have suggested several times on this thread The difficult task that we all face in a tolerant multicultural society is how do we discourage the former cohort and empower the later who are quite likely to make good and productive citizens?
    We can not partake in the extremist “deport them all” scenarios because it would be simply impossible to do and frankly such ethnic cleansing is an abhorrent idea that no believer in a truly civil society could countenance. Which leaves us with only one choice as far as I can see and that is to shine the light of truth upon the excesses of Islam in the same way that we are shining the light of truth upon those elements within the Catholic church who have been abusing children. If that upsets the “liberals” and other luvvies of the left, well they are just going to have to get over their fear of “offending” Muslims and engage in and consider the veracity of the criticisms instead.

  150. Ray Dixon says:

    GD, you might be comfortable mixing with the type of filth ‘Tad’ writes but you’d be in a tiny minority of extremists if you condone that kind of bigotry.

    Tony, I haven’t “lost” the argument here – we just have different opinions. But you can’t help personalising yours so, if you don’t want me to mention the FACT you have had multiple (loopy) identities here stretching back for years and have previously been banned (after you went off and bad mouthed Iain & I all over the Internet, including the insane paranoid claim that Iain was actually me!) then just back off and leave me out of your loopy commentary. I’m quite happy to ignore you if you do likewise. Okay?

  151. Tony says:

    Oh there is the identity challenge again.
    err bump, err bump, just like a broken ol 78 Ray.
    Pity, much like everything else you have said here, nothing but wishful thinking.

  152. Tony says:

    BTW, just like the unique accuracy you showed stating Indonesia’s population was around the 1 billion mark ?
    Want to revise that ?
    😆

  153. Ray Dixon says:

    “Tony”, just ignore me and I’ll ignore you, okay? You wouldn’t want me dragging up your old (mad, paranoid & banned) “Sax” comments now, would you? So go bother someone else, please.

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