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Free Plug: Kevin Rudd Raising Standards

It really is a rather giddy piece f spin but whay would we exect anything less from Brother Number One?
Cheers Comrade Yale

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76 Comments

  1. Ray Dixon says:

    I’m surprised you’re still reblogging posts from Yale the Young Lib, Iain, especially after the last one where he tried to convince himself that somehow Rudd’s return as PM was unconstitutional and that the GG would refuse to accept it and, instead, hand the job over to Abbott. Gee, he was a bit out on that one.

    Come on, you can do a better job than Yale – he didn’t even have the guts to show the video and, instead, merely had a link to it.

    Maybe you need to RAISE THE STANDARDS and put it up here, Iain.

    Like this:

  2. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    I like Yales’s musings he has a fine analytical mind when it comes to political machinations, that said when you re-blog a post you have no control at all when it comes to the format. As for the Vid well thanks for reposting it in your comment but Rudd does not have much to say does he?

  3. Ray Dixon says:

    I’m impressed with the Rudd ad, Iain, and I think the slogan “Raising the standards” is clever. And I think Rudd is definitely turning the tables on Abbott by calling for him to either put up or shut up.

    Btw, nice effort by Morrison today calling for the SAS to invade that boat. He’s played straight into Rudd’s hands with that one. This is what Rudd has been saying – you can’t “turn back the boats” by force like Howard did with Tampa. Indonesia won’t cop that and neither will the public. Not any more. It proves that the Liberals are living in the past and do not have a real solution to the modern-day refugee problem.

  4. Iain Hall says:

    Ray

    Maltese-flagged oil and chemical tanker the Sichem Hawk returned 34 asylum seekers and two crew to Christmas Island from international waters near Indonesia last week after bad weather prevented them being transferred to an Indonesian navy vessel and the asylum seekers threatened self-harm.

    Morrison said the Rudd government should have refused the Sichem Hawk permission to divert to Christmas Island.

    “People who are going to try this on, they should be stopped … what the Australian government should be doing is letting merchant vessels know if they are in that situation, that an Australian naval or customs vessel would come to their aid and support them,” he said, invoking the controversial stand-off between the Howard government and the Norwegian vessel the MV Tampa in 2001, in which the Tampa was eventually boarded by Australian special services troops in Australian territorial waters.

    Asked about the case, the Coalition leader, Tony Abbott, refused to comment on “operational matters” but said “we will ensure we will not be played for mugs … by people smugglers and their customers”.

    “The Australian government should not be expected to take responsibility for the foolish actions by non-citizens … the Australian government should not be blackmailed,” Abbott said.

    The Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA) confirmed that the Sichem Hawk had returned to Christmas Island because of threats by the 34 asylum seekers and crew, who were picked up in international waters between Java and Christmas Island.

    AMSA said the decision to take the asylum seekers to Christmas Island had been made because of the threats by the asylum seekers and also because a plan to transfer the people to an Indonesian navy vessel in the Sunda Strait had to be abandoned because of bad weather.

    source

    I see nothing wrong at all with what Morrison said and I note that you ignore the fact that the so called asylum-seekers intimidating the captain of the ship that rescued them with threats of self harm. Personally I think if they threaten self harm then call their bluff. But certainly make such threats a ensure that any claim they make will be rejected .

  5. Ray Dixon says:

    What a load of crap, Iain. The fact is that, despite Howard’s “tough” stance on the Tampa, of the 450 or so asylum seekers on board, about 90% were eventually admitted to Australia as refugees. Under Howard. This “turn back (or invade) the boats” rhetoric is all talk and no real action. It’s a freakin’ smoke screen, and your man Abbott has no more of a clue how to handle the issue than Rudd does.

  6. GD says:

    your man Abbott has no more of a clue how to handle the issue than Rudd does

    So Rudd doesn’t have a clue, eh?

    Well I’ll agree with that. Especially after he grovelled to the Indonesian president…

    Rudd’s efforts to solve the problem he started amount to this….

  7. GD says:

    On the other hand, the Libs know exactly how to stem the flow of illegal immigrants.

    Scott Morrison, opposition immigration spokesman pushes the point that Rudd caused this influx of supposed refugees and that he is now exacerbating it.

    “The only unilateral action that Australia has undertaken that has caused significant difficulty for the Indonesians operationally has been Kevin Rudd’s decision to abolish the strong border protection regime he inherited from John Howard, and that’s certainly not the sort of unilateral action that I would want to see happen again in the future.”

    “You don’t help Indonesia by making your borders weaker, as Kevin Rudd did; you do it by making them stronger because that’s what stopped the boats and removed this problem for Indonesia.”

    Mr Morrison says that the Coalition’s policy would stop the flow of asylum seekers through Indonesia.
    “The Pacific Solution stopped the boats and it stopped the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people pouring through Indonesia on their way to Australia,” he said.

  8. Iain Hall says:

    Further too GD’s excellent rebuttal you ignore the fact that both sides are now far more willing to reject claimants as economic migrants and that when numbers are low its easier to give them the benefit of the doubt. Also don’t forget the pressure on officials because of the problem in returning some of these people even when their claim has been found to be dodgy. Frankly I reckon that they should be loaded up onto a Jet and parachuted into their countries of origin, and forget about all of the niceties of getting permission…

  9. Ray Dixon says:

    The so-called ‘Pacific solution’ won’t work second time around. The reality is that Abbott has not come up with a policy.

  10. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    There is no reason at all to believe your claim is valid.
    I expect that next you will be claiming that its all due to “push factors” when there is tons of evidence that its all Rudd’s fault.

  11. Ray Dixon says:

    You can play the blame game as much as you like, Iain, but there is also no reason at all to believe Abbott can “stop the boats”.

  12. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    The question is not “can Tony stop the boats” but can Rudd do so and as his party has been in office for the last six years during which the number of boats and people in detention have gone through the roof its not unreasonable to think that they will follow the precedent of the last two terms and fail to deter the boats.

    The most recent capitulation on those so called suicidal “asylum seekers” is a perfect example of why Labor are totally useless on this issue. Rudd should have denied the ship permission to land at Christmas Island and offered the captain military assistance if he felt threatened. That would have showed the world that Labor are no longer an easy mark, but, as usual he squibbed it and People smuggler must be very happy indeed that he did.

  13. Iain Hall says:

    Oh and I’ve been expecting you to write about the brave new world under the Born again Kevin Rudd but I’ve been saddened by its absence

  14. Richard Ryan says:

    IMAGINE! If the original inhabitants of this continent had “stopped the boats” over two hundred years ago, we may not have Catholic pedophiles in the church today.

  15. Iain Hall says:

    Richard

    Are you worried about the competition for young talent or something?

  16. Richard Ryan says:

    Iain what is this all about? two girls French Kissing on your blog—bit kinky don’t you think?

  17. Iain Hall says:

    What is wrong with lovers kissing in a loving manner Richard? are you homophobic?

  18. Tony says:

    Also don’t forget the pressure on officials because of the problem in returning some of these people even when their claim has been found to be dodgy. Frankly I reckon that they should be loaded up onto a Jet and parachuted into their countries of origin, and forget about all of the niceties of getting permission…

    There’s your endgame problem people.
    The countries of origin, don’t, and won’t allow them back ?

  19. Iain Hall says:

    Well Tony I think that is the reason that so many end up being accepted even when their claims are well dodgy, DIMA officials start to think about the cost of their continued detention and the legal process and they give up. Minions of the left then cite the eventual “pass” rate and use that as a (fallacious)measure of the overall validity of asylum claim.
    Compassion fatigue is also in play on this issue, the people of Australia have only a limited capacity to care about tales of woe, especially when they feel that these people will be competing for limited places in the economy.

  20. Tony says:

    I agree.
    The “compassion fatigue” principle is hightened, personally for me anyway, when I see the boats, filled with Sri Lankans headed our way.
    I don’t believe I am racist, but that country has been in civil war for decades, and yet the populace there, won’t lift a finger to end it ?
    When do we collectively, say, enough is enough ? The problem won’t be solved, until someone, say the UN, marches into Sri Lanka, with a bloody big stick, whacks these tossers over the head with it, and say that’s it ! If they won’t enforce a peace, then the UN will ?

    These “tourists” aren’t political refugees, they are economic refugees. I can’t say I blame them for choosing this path, but the message has to get back, that they won’t get away with it anymore.

    All that has to happen, and governments in this region have been gutless to do it, is tow ONE boat back into Columbo harbour, and I think the problem will solve itself overnight, once the parasite agents that set up these boats, realise, that it won’t work anymore ?

    Our economy is pretty sick, despite the rantings of Swan and Co. It cannot afford a massive influx of migrants with no skills or limited education.
    Until we get back on our feet again, we have to stop this massive drain on our welfare systems and budgets ?

  21. Iain Hall says:

    Just a quick heads up on the Sri Lankan civil war, its been over for about three years now with the Tamil tigers comprehensively beaten

  22. Tony says:

    Then obviously, rather than vote the people out that they dislike, they can’t be bothered, use the war as the excuse, and hit the boats ?
    Lets face it, good ol Oz is a better option no matter the outcome of the war isn’t it ? Their relatives, already here, have told them that !

  23. Ray Dixon says:

    Oh, here we go – the ‘we can’t afford to take more people’ argument. News flash: we have always taken large numbers of migrants and that number includes the relatively small number of asylum seekers that arrive by boats. This country was built on immigration and these people are not taking up “economic space” and will eventually contribute to it. We are not down and out and on our knees as you imply and this issue is not a deal breaker for those who look at the bigger picture. I guess though, it’s all Abbott has got to hang his hat on and it’s why he keeps saying “Howard stopped the boats and so will I’. Yet he still can’t explain exactly how he’ll do that.

  24. Ray Dixon says:

    I’ve been expecting you to write about the brave new world under the Born again Kevin Rudd but I’ve been saddened by its absence

    Sorry Iain, but I’m not into writing posts that are little more than barracking or cheerleading for one side a la Joffa & Collingwood. By any measure though, Rudd has certainly set the political scene alight in just two weeks since his reinstatement and turned this election on its head. I don’t know if he can keep it up but I just have a feeling that the 50/50 polling we’re now seeing will hold right through to the election – which I predict will be 31 August, despite suggestions he’ll wait until October. Meanwhile, I’m quite happy to sit and observe what could be a very important moment in this country’s history. It’s truly fascnating stuff – you’d have to agree with that, wouldn’t you?

  25. Tony says:

    Oh, here we go – the ‘we can’t afford to take more people’ argument.

    And here we go again, with the typical Laborite ethos, that we can always hit the country’s credit card, and let future generations worry about paying it back ? Eventually Ray, the countries that back our credit line, will say enough is enough, and cut up our credit card ?

    This country was built on immigration and these people are not taking up “economic space” and will eventually contribute to it.

    Yes, you are correct with one proviso Ray ?
    This country was built on immigration for certain, SKILLED IMMIGRATION
    If your skills weren’t on the list, (unless in times of war etc), you didn’t get in, period !

    We are not down and out and on our knees as you imply and this issue is not a deal breaker for those who look at the bigger picture

    With a budget defecit of over $200 billion in less than six years Ray, I am certain that many economists in the RBA would disagree, with your “flower power” vision of our economic future ?

    Rudd will wait as long as he can before calling the date. But, he wants to be careful of just how long he waits, lest the people realise and remember the damage that labor has done to the economy since their reign of universal benevolence began ?

  26. Ray Dixon says:

    There is no ‘skills requirement’ on refugees. Likewise there were no skills requirements for Ten Pound Poms. It’s funny though how most people from both groups eventually become skilled and contribute to our economy.

    Our immigration program includes a certain intake of refugees (this year it’s about 20,000 out of an overall intake of about 200,000) and the cost of doing so is both necesssary and affordable for this country. It’s part of the cost we pay to keep this country in good shape.

    You keep bleating on about how we can’t afford it but I’m yet to hear how you or anyone else has been disadvantaged by Australia accepting asylum seekers. Granted, there have been too many lately but that’s a logistical problem and I repeat: it is not harming anyone.

  27. Tony says:

    The intake of refugees is not the problem Ray, it never has been.
    The problem is trying to stem the flow on what is coming, and more importantly, what will come in the future ?

    Added to that, more importantly, the verification that they are indeed refugees in the first place, and not just economic migrants looking for another way into the country ?

    Upon arrival, instead of being grateful for their new homes (built at tax payers expense ?), they want to get out, get jobs and build new lives. Including taking advantage of the immigrant reunification scheme ? If they don’t get this, then they burn down their digs ? They bring no papers with them, on purpose, so checking their validity becomes near impossible, then get p*ssed off, as to why it takes so long for them to be accepted ?

    Not harming anyone huh ?
    Looked at the unemployment rate lately, especially under the heading of “unskilled labour” ?
    Looked at the repair bill after they have trashed those digs ?

    Not harming anyone huh ? C’mon Ray, you will have to do better than that ?
    😉

  28. Ray Dixon says:

    Nearly all immigrants are economic ones and move here for a better life and more opportunity. What’s wrong with that? And the only ones “burning down their digs” are the asylum seekers who have been rejected and even then it was only a small minority of rejected applicants responsible for those handful of incidents like at Villawood. Btw, the “digs” being “trashed” or “burned down” that you refer to are the detention centres, not private homes.

    And our unemployment rate has remained consistently low despite the influx of asylum seekers over recent years, suggesting most refugees eventually find work.

    Yes, there are problems in stemming the flow and in looking at the assessment criteria but these are not problems that impact on you, me or the rest of the population one little bit. Do you seriously think you’d be personally any better off if suddenly the boats were stopped? Do you think we’d have lower taxes or something? Seriously?

  29. Tony says:

    You’re getting confused again Ray ?

    These people are supposed to be refugees.
    People, supposedly, desperate to escape their own country, in fear of their very lives ?
    There is nothing wrong with wanting a better life. Lets face it, all of us, aboriginals included, come from somewhere else historically.

    How would we be better off ?
    What about allowing in people with cash in their pocket. Cash to start businesses, and employ people here ?
    There is still room for them for sure, but the more economic refugees are allowed in, that comes off the total allowance of immigrants for the year. It is pretty basic actually. Those coming in with money, is far more advantageous than those that have nothing, and suck off the public teat ?
    Those with money consume from the start, those that don’t could take years to do so, putting the normal population at a disadvantage right from the start ?
    After all, isn’t that the major aim of all immigration from the start ?

  30. GD says:

    Ray seems ok with trashing and burning as long as it’s muslims doing it

    Btw, the “digs” being “trashed” or “burned down” that you refer to are the detention centres, not private homes.

    Ah, that’s ok then. Trashing and burning government (ie taxpayers) property doesn’t matter does it?

    I wonder if the ten pound poms trashed and burnt the less than luxurious digs they were given on arrival in Australia?

    He then reckons:

    even then it was only a small minority of rejected applicants responsible for those handful of incidents like at Villawood

    Well, not quite..

    Riot police were seen entering the building shortly after 9.30am today after about 100 detainees torched nine buildings inside the detention centre, sparking an explosion of a gas cylinder.

    Ray then surmises:

    And our unemployment rate has remained consistently low despite the influx of asylum seekers over recent years, suggesting most refugees eventually find work

    Well that’s not true either Ray. If you do some research you’ll find that:

    MORE than 60 per cent of refugees to Australia have failed to get a job after five years, according to a Federal Government report into the humanitarian settlement program.

    And 83 per cent of those households now rely on welfare payments for income.

    The statistics are contained in a Department of Immigration and Citizenship report

    So even if forty per cent of refugees manage to ‘get a job’, and remember, Centrelink regards anyone who works more than an hour a week is classified as employed, their families and households are still dependent on Centrelink for income.

    This is not the Snowy Mountains migrant scheme revisited. This is a rort by Middle East muslims to suck off the teat of our welfare system.

    By the way, those ten pound poms didn’t have the luxury of welfare. They had to work to get a quid.

    3.1.13 / 11pm

    When I arrived in Australia, in 1970 as a ten pound pom, we immigrants the moment we arrived, though allowed to stay in a hostel for just a few days in order to gather our wits, had newspapers thrust into our hands and told to find a job and other accommodation, because there was no social welfare obviously available.

    Todays’ refugees are given a ‘welcome pack’, something not given to our unemployed or homeless, but given willy-nilly to anyone who turns up without papers.

    Is this the way to protect our borders, to screen those who apply to live here and then grant instant welfare payments?

    Is this the way to build a future for our country?

    No, this way lies madness. Australia under Labor is selling itself short. It is selling us out. It is selling our birthright and future to third world countries all in the name of bleeding heart compassion and a misguided belief that global socialism is the future of our society.

  31. Ray Dixon says:

    Okay, GD, I think you should apply to be in charge of the asylum seeker program from now on. You can determine who’s genuine and who’s not. And you can decide how much assistance they’ll get too – after all, you’re such an impartial and fair-minded person.

    You’ll need a government to agree with your radical anti-muslim views first though (hint: the giveaway was your mention of them in your opening sentence. I did not defend muslims yet you claimed I did. You just can’t hide your venomous prejudice, can you?), and I can’t think of one apart from Pauline Hanson’s party, whatever she’s calling it. You’ll need to get in touch with her now to make sure she gets enough seats to form government because I think that even your beloved Tony Abbott would say:

    “Um, thanks but no thanks for your offer of assistance on how to stop the boats, GD. Kindly piss off”.

  32. Ray Dixon says:

    And btw, that report (from the DT) that you quoted also states this:

    The study of more than 8500 humanitarian entrants revealed that only 31 per cent of humanitarian refugees were considered “employed” after five years.
    The remainder were unemployed, retired, studying full time, engaged in caring duties, doing voluntary work or trying to start a business from which they had yet to receive income

    In other words, they’ve included retirees, mothers at home caring for kids, children still studying at school (including primary school kids, no doubt) and the self employed in their claim that “more than 60% of refugees have failed to get a job”. They probably even included babies. That’s disgusting, prejudicial and disgraceful reporting. They’re as biased as you are.

  33. Tony says:

    You’re picking gnits Ray.

    The remainder were unemployed, retired, studying full time, engaged in caring duties, doing voluntary work or trying to start a business from which they had yet to receive income

    To argue, along your lines. You are incorrect, again.

    These people, that you mentioned above, are considered as being “employed”, and one of the main reasons, as to why our supposed unemployment rate has been inaccurate, and under stated / slanted for years !
    What is the fine line, 15 hours a week from memory ?

    Again, your attack at GD (as well as others), in a futile attempt to prop up a failed argument is typical, and as usual, uncalled for, especially when you arguing from an ‘impossible to win’ position ?

  34. Ray Dixon says:

    Tony, it was GD (and the newspaper) who called those people unemployed. You’ve got your argument arse up.

  35. Tony says:

    Perhaps re read your comment @ 7:07, especially the last para, and you may find it worthy to reassess your asinine comment above, without the trash talk ?

    Talking about argument ar*e end up ?
    😉

  36. Ray Dixon says:

    What trash talk? You made a mistake by claiming I’d said those people were unemployed when it was GD who said that. Just acknowledge your error and move on.

  37. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    In all fairness Ray the passage you cite does say that some of them are “unemployed” but it does not give a detailed breakdown, Now as the majority of boat arrivals are young men I suspect that only a rather small proportion of those you cite are actually women or children.

  38. Tony says:

    To be somewhat concilliary here I offer the below ?

    Lets face it guys, look at all the photos of the boats as they have arrived. They are all filled with men only ? What does that tell you ?
    That their families are still waiting at home, with their bags packed at their respective doors, waiting for the good ol Austalian Family Reunification Scheme to kick in, and you won’t see their lil feet (and bags ?) for dust in their rush for the nearest airport.

    Look, the 200 that arrive on the boat are not the problem ?
    Its the 2000 ! that arrive a year later under that AFRUS that IS the problem !

    I am surprised, that at least thinking economically, and regardless of compassion grounds, no one else sees the inherrent problems here ?

  39. Ray Dixon says:

    Iain, the point that you (and obviouslky GD & Tony) conveniently overlook is you can’t call stay-at-home mothers caring for kids, retirees, school students, pre-school kids, little babies and self-employed people “unemployed” and legitimately include them in a statement that says “60% of asylum seekers have failed to find work”. It’s disingenuous to the extreme. On that basis you’d say that more than 50% of Australian citizens are unemployed, as our work force is actually less than half the population.

  40. Tony says:

    What I am saying Ray, is that anything over 15 hours a week is considered, at least for the government statistics purposes, as being employed.
    Only 15 hours. That’s not much is it ?

    As the majority of the asylum seekers at the entry stage, are single men, why is saying that they have “failed to find work” not a legitimate comment to make at this stage ?

  41. Ray Dixon says:

    Yes, but we’re not talking “at the entry stage”. The stats were based on 5 years after arrival and that would obviously include their families – you know, stay-at-home mums and children. The point is that the article GD used to support his contention that refugees are bludging on our society was seriously misreported and deliberately so. Using GD’s logic, every Aussie born kid still at school is bludging on our society. And so are pre-schoolers, little babies, self employed people, mothers who decide to stay home to raise the kids, old age pensioners, war veterans and the disabled. Where’s his similar outrage with them?

  42. Tony says:

    I know this may be semantics to you, BUT, even if they were in education of some description, that would equate to the required 15 hours a week, to be considered fully employed, and out of the unemployment statistics ?
    Stay at home mums, are not included in the job stats, and rightfully should be considered NOT unemployed, even though they are doing an important job. They’re choice, and they shouldn’t be criticised for it !

    I think what GD, and myself included, are inferring, is that these arrivals, even after five years, with kids and whatever under reunification, are still unemployed, and that situation doesn’t look like it is going to end soon. The latest lot, for the last few years, from Sri Lanka, are still unemployed for the most part, and not yet qualify to bring their families out as far as I know.

    The federal labor government, puts them into TAFE, or equivalent, in an attempt to not only get them trained up in some skill, but also to keep their numbers OUT of the unemployment stats.

    Remember back to our previous schemes, when entry into Australia, was encumbent on you having a job arranged when you arrived, and staying employed, (I think ?) continually, for the following two years, to fulfil visa and entry requirements ? This is of course impossible to do, if a refugee, but some time frame must be put on these people to at least ATTEMPT to get a job, or retrain in a field where they WILL find work ?

    Surely, that is not an unreasonable ask for what we give in return ?

  43. GD says:

    Using GD’s logic, every Aussie born kid still at school is bludging on our society. And so are pre-schoolers, little babies, self employed people, mothers who decide to stay home to raise the kids, old age pensioners, war veterans and the disabled.

    Bullshit Ray. Show where I said that. You are drowning in denial.

    And while you’re at it, show where I said I hated Aborigines and Muslims.

  44. Ray Dixon says:

    GD, you effectively said that when you held up – ie when you endorsed – the DT article as ‘proof’ that refugees were bludgers.

    Sheez, talk about being in denial.

  45. Tony says:

    Whatever you call it Ray, but after a time period of say five years, after many thousands of dollars have been spent feeding, housing, and importantly, educating these people, why can’t we honestly expect them to contribute in return ?
    Why don’t we judge them by the same rules, that we apply to our own kids, as they move through the system ?
    How long does the bloody gravy train have to be, before we say enough is enough ffs !

  46. Ray Dixon says:

    Who says refugees don’t contribute? Our history proves they do and there are many examples of them working in even menial jobs, like collecting shopping trollies from carparks. Typically, a refugee will take any job and appreciate it – compare that to the attitude of a lot of white trash Aussie-born bogans. Been to Mooroopna lately? Lovely place, full of white trash welfare recipients in public housing with barely a job (or a work ethic) between them. Give the refugees a go – they’re only here to better themselves, not to bludge.

  47. Tony says:

    How does the fruit get picked Ray, jump off the tree all by itself into the bins ?

    Give the refugees a go – they’re only here to better themselves, not to bludge.

    Two words for ya, bull sh*t !

    They come here, (if you are a purest ?), to escape a dangerous homeland, to start again with their families in a safe environment.
    Bettering themselves is a furphy. They are supposed to be refugees. A safe place, where they won’t be killed whilst sleeping, is the first reason they want to come, and as I said nothing wrong with that either. Survival for today, and more importantly for them and their families, tomorrow is why they are here.

    Not that there is anything wrong with that, all power to them. BUT, after five years, that fear should have abated enough, for them to consider what they will do with their’s, and their family’s futures ?

    Up in Shep huh ? When was the last time you saw a refugee working up a sweat picking pears for example ?

    What is wrong with applying the same standards to refugees, (after an appropriate time line has been put in place. The example stated above of two years would seem sufficient ?), as the rest of us, when it comes to qualifying, and continuing to qualify for social security payments ?
    This is not racism, but merely applying the rules, that the rest of us have to live under ?

  48. Ray Dixon says:

    I thought you said the refugees came here for “economic” reasons not out of fear? That in itself implies they come here for better opportunities – ie to work and make a living. Most do. I think you’re trying to have your argument both ways.

    Anyway, as for the fruit picking in the Goulburn Valley (what’s left of it – you might have heard that SPC have cut their quotas and many growers are either broke or pulling trees out), most of the picking is done by itinerant workers and/or backpackers, not by the locals. And that’s always been the case. As a matter of interest though, Shepparton has a very large Iraqi refugee population … and they are by and large employed and NOT on welfare. Not like the white trash bogans that the State govt has relocated to public housing in Mooroopna. Same goes for Wodonga – plenty of hard working refugees there and plenty of bludging Aussie-born white trash.

  49. Tony says:

    Aw, nice attempt at a save Ray. Failed though, but nice try ?

    Your (and others) claim is, that they are refugees. I am saying that the majority are NOT !
    But, leaving that side of the argument out of it for the moment, I am assuming that they are legitimate refugees, here out of fear for their lives. Upon that basis, any job would do. I know it would for me ?

    Your rebuttal is fine, no examples to back it up, but I will accept your premise that they are employed, although I wonder where ?
    Iraquis huh Ray, how long they been there ?

    Also, your reference to “white trash” is just as derogatory, as you claimed both GD and I were against refugees ?

    Think about the logistics here. How much money, do the respective governments pay firms in your region, to actually hire refugees Ray ? I would say a bloody sight more, than what they would get hiring the plenty of bludging Aussie-born white trash in your district ? Added to that, the massive out of proportion population ratios re local white trash against foreign born refugees ? Hardly a reach coming to your conclusion, not much thought needed there, other than perhaps a bit of logic and common sense ?

    All I, and probably GD (and am loathe to assume for him), are saying is that five years is a fair amount of time to cut the purse strings. Also, a long enough time for the new arrivals to learn the law, language as well as everything else, that any other immigrant around this bloody entire planet, has to come to grips with, if they pull up stumps and move to another country ?
    After all, isn’t that one of the mainstays of EVERY democracy on the plante fairness and equality for all ?
    We are just saying, maybe more I in this instance, is the same rules should apply to everybody as has been the case in the past.

  50. GD says:

    Excellent comment, Tony.

    Ray is tying himself in knots with his apology for so called ‘refugees’ jumping the UN queue and being granted instant welfare benefits in Australia. If that isn’t sugar on the table what is.

    Ray likes to make statements like this:

    Shepparton has a very large Iraqi refugee population … and they are by and large employed and NOT on welfare.

    He won’t offer any proof of this claim other than it is his opinion.

    Ray also likes to call those who disagree with him ‘racists’, ‘haters’ and all sorts of other negative words while at the same time he denigrates Australians who need welfare, calling them bogans and bludgers.

    As he did with this statement:

    Not like the white trash bogans that the State govt has relocated to public housing in Mooroopna. Same goes for Wodonga – plenty of hard working refugees there and plenty of bludging Aussie-born white trash.

    Of course he has no proof that the refugees in Wodonga are hard working or otherwise, it’s just his ‘gut-feeling’.

    Apparently it’s ok to call Aussies ‘bogans and bludgers’ but not ‘men of middle eastern appearance’ who riot in our streets.

    Ray also ignores the massive cost to the country of processing, monitoring and housing people who arrive without papers.

    Again, Ray is ok with this. But if there is a mum in Altona who can’t feed her kids, well Ray reckons she’s just a bludging bogan.

    Ray loves our recently arrived visitors.

    I wonder how much he will love them when they move into his neck of the woods.

    See, Ray has been protected from the past decade’s immigration and refugee shambles.

    He hasn’t witnessed, first hand, suburbs turning overnight from ordinary Aussie boring heartland to no-go zones, to drive-by shooting galleries and suburbs where English is a third language. His opinion, and that is all it is, is based on a cloistered existence in a remote country town renowned for its beauty and proximity to the snowfields.

    Yes, Ray, this is the future you deny. This is the future, if you continue to accept open borders, automatic welfare, ie taxpayer money, to all and sundry, without any checks and balances.

    BTW the gentleman in the pic, arrested during the riots, has been on a disability pension for three years.

    That makes sense.

  51. Richard Ryan says:

    Turn back the drones! snigger snigger.

  52. Richard Ryan says:

    GD you just love that “Dutch Racist” Andrew Bolt—-still waiting for the venue of your next gig, will give you a night to remember, will even hop on a plane to get there, that is not a threat, but a fact. Will bring along some of my Muslim brothers, you would would just love that.

  53. Iain Hall says:

    Richard
    are you now admitting that you are a Muslim?

  54. Iain Hall says:

    Poop or get off the pot Richard!

  55. GD says:

    So Richard, what would you and your imagined Muslim pals do to me?

    You sound like a charming bunch. What is your preferred playlist?

    Something like this?

    bit of a shame that Islam frowns on dancing and music…

    but keep supporting Islam RR…

    it’s the intelligent thing to do

  56. Richard Ryan says:

    GD= “Gangsta Disciple”!

  57. Iain Hall says:

    Richard
    I can’t help but think that your conversion to Islam was an artifact of the partner you have chosen, was it family pressure that tipped you over the edge? You know only a Muslim can marry our daughter?

  58. Richard Ryan says:

    ISLAM-will rule the world—repent ye sinners and infidels.

  59. Iain Hall says:

    So when are you doing the haj Richard?

  60. Tony says:

    Be careful what you wish for Richard ?

  61. Tony says:

    BTW Ray, your comment of

    Anyway, as for the fruit picking in the Goulburn Valley (what’s left of it – you might have heard that SPC have cut their quotas and many growers are either broke or pulling trees out), most of the picking is done by itinerant workers and/or backpackers, not by the locals.

    is a fair one. But the reason as to why they have gone broke, is poor seasons, poor management, and mostly, the allowance of BOTH labor and liberal federal governments, to let in cheap sub standard imports from Asia, that local growers could never compete with. Not that this has anything to do with the argument, but there it is ?

    Insofar as Richard’s comment ? After a quick (didn’t take long really ?) think about it, Islam will never rule the planet, whatever brainwashed converts such as him think.

    Not everyone on this planet is that gullible cobber !
    Deal with that ?
    😉

  62. Ray Dixon says:

    Tony, I’m not aware of any govt program that pays subsidies to firms to hire refugees. I do recall a program (under Howard) that paid employers subsidies of a few $thousand to hire people (of any origin) who were on the dole but as far as I know, companies do not get any extra incentives to hire refugees.

    GD, there’s so much rhetoric, assumption, distortion, offensiveness and outright lies in your comment it’s hard to know where to start. Briefly though:

    1. There is no “UN queue” for refugees. A big part of the problem in stemming the flow of unauthorised boat arrivals is gaining co-operation from other nations into making the processing of asylum seekers more orderly, which is what Rudd is attempting to do. Abbott’s mantra of ‘turn back the boats’ (to Indonesia) won’t work because that is not a working in conjunction with other involved nations to solve the issues.

    2. My observations about Iraqis in Shepparton and other refugees in Wodonga being well integrated and largely employed may only be an opinion but it’s one that’s based on first hand experience and one that seems to be supported by most people in those regions. There is no public outcry in regional Victoria about refugees, even though relatively large numbers have relocated.

    3. I haven’t called you or anyone else here who disagrees with me a ‘racist’ or a ‘hater’. That’s a straight out lie. I have called you prejudiced and a fear-mongerer on immigration and I stand by that. It’s self evident.

    4. I haven’t applied the term ‘white trash bogans’ to all Aussies on welfare. I’ve only referred – in answer to your allegations on unemployed refugees – to a certain small sector the State govt has kicked out of Melbourne and into public housing in country areas like Mooroopna & Wodonga. It’s a fact. There are drones in our society and there always has been. Some of them consist of entire families where Dad passes on the unemployed ‘tradition’ (and pot smoking habit) to his offspring. But I haven’t suggested they shouldn’t receive that welfare and in fact I believe drones like that are just part of society, will always exist and must always be dragged along. I’m just pointing out that you single out refugees, most of whom are not drones, yet you overlook our own bludging underclass. If you don’t think they exist then you don’t live in the real world.

    5. I’m not ‘sheltered’ from immigrants and refugees (or muslims) and we get our share and then some up here. In fact we get about 1,000,000 visitors a year in this area so it’s hardly ‘cloistered’ Surprisingly, the Sri Lankan, Iraqi, Croat, Serb, Albanian, Afghani, Latino, Asian and Iranian immigrants and/or refugees (to mention a few) who regularly stay at our holiday accommodation are in fact paying guests and are quite obviously employed, as well as being charming and polite people (well, with the exception of some of the Croats and the Serbs). We also have a growing population of muslims here and no problems so far – although Myrtleford has a major problem with theft, assaults, vandalism, robbery, drug dealing and illegal firearms among its unemployed Aussie born locals.

    6. You paint a grim picture of your western Sydney suburban home. I wonder why you still live there. I also wonder why so many others do too, if it’s as bad as you say. As I’ve suggested to you before, you have no right to decide the demographic of your little part of the metropolis that is Sydney; things change and if you don’t like your new neighbours maybe the fault’s with you and/or maybe you have other options. Btw, are you suggesting the drive-by shootings are all committed by refugees or muslims? I doubt it.

    7. I don’t share your negative outlook for Australia’s future and you’re the one sounding as though you’d like to be ‘cloistered’ away from reality. Well … there’s always New Zealand.

  63. Richard Ryan says:

    Rudd will call the election at his own leisure,as Keating would say, Rudd will do Abbott s-l-o-w-l-y. Suck it up GD.

  64. Iain Hall says:

    Like Rudd you over reach Richard

  65. Tony says:

    Obviously Richard hasn’t heard of the term honeymoon phase ?

    Wait until the liberal propaganda machine begin to remind us of just how well he governed the purse strings in the last few years ?

    For you hardened laborites ?

  66. GD says:

    Tony, I hope that’s a song we’ll be singing on the evening of the election. That’s if KRudd has the guts to announce the overdue election instead of poncing about posting ‘selfies’ on twitter.

    Tony Abbott will rise admirably. Geez, he even has lefty Turnball as back-up. What has Labor got? One time failed Rudd, expelled Gillard and moron Greenie Milne?

  67. GD says:

    GD, there’s so much rhetoric, assumption, distortion, offensiveness and outright lies in your comment

    I could say the same for your longwinded and tiresome diatribe about how refugees and immigrants have so much money that they can afford to take holidays in the Victorian Alpine region.

    We also have a growing population of muslims here and no problems so far – although Myrtleford has a major problem with theft, assaults, vandalism, robbery, drug dealing and illegal firearms among its unemployed Aussie born locals.

    Ray, you have your head in the sand. Victoria already has a burgeoning problem with violent Sudanese youths. Their community is either powerless to restrain them or ambivalent about their behaviour.

    Western Sydney drive by shootings are invariably, or as far as the record shows since 1990, always carried out by ‘men of middle eastern appearance’ in suburbs they live in.

    Hell, they’re not even attacking the rest of us yet, they’re too busy shooting each other.

    Whether it is by immigration or humanitarian welfare, we are importing a festering sore of humanity that is intent on recreating the mess that is evident today in the Middle East.

    Leftards such as yourself prefer to ignore this festering problem and instead like to bash our good ole aussie bogans.

    Why are you so intent on committing cultural suicide?

    PS Your suggestion that I relocate is idiotic. Eventually there will be nowhere to relocate to. I suppose my claim of Australian heritage isn’t as worthy as your ‘come one, come all’ policy.

    Or to put it another way, ‘the more the merrier’.

  68. Tony says:

    You have forgotten a major premise as well GD ?

    Immigrants, and by definition refugees as well, ALWAYS end up bringing with them, upon resettlement, all their home prejudices, as well as wars, whether turf or tribal. The left always seems to forget these transgressions, as being of society norm, and that we should be patient, that all will be ok in the end, after they settle down. The concentration of these practices, is way higher amongst continuing generations of refugees is startling. Not only refugees either, the trend would seem to apply to all new arrivals.

    The ironic thing is, that in the past, before all this political correctness c*ap came in, Australia as a society would never have accepted this type of behaviour, and just thrown the tossers in jail. Now, they just run free, and we have communities scared out of their wits, to go out on the streets for very fear of their lives. Feel goods, like Ray, say it doesn’t happen, as they stick their collective heads in the sand, hoping that the problem just goes away in time ? Well it hasn’t so far, in over seventy years of accepting refugees and immigrants from over the planet, and there is no sign of that happening any time soon ?

    I know I simply reiterated some of your points GD, but they are worthy of mention, valid, and are deeply concerning.
    Even more concerning, is that if the government begins to listen to the whacko left, then the problems down the track are only going to get worse. We simply have not the police budgets available, to control these turf wars and festering hatreds amongst these new arrivals.

  69. Iain Hall says:

    Tony

    Even more concerning, is that if the government begins to listen to the whacko left, then the problems down the track are only going to get worse. We simply have not the police budgets available, to control these turf wars and festering hatreds amongst these new arrivals.

    That is the biggie isn’t it? Sadly that is very much an artifact of the multicultural mindset which refuses to even acknowledge that some cultural traditions, expectations and practices are socially pernicious for a modern tolerant and secular society.

  70. Ray Dixon says:

    Ray said: GD, there’s so much rhetoric, assumption, distortion, offensiveness and outright lies in your comment

    And GD responded: I could say the same for your longwinded and tiresome diatribe about how refugees and immigrants have so much money that they can afford to take holidays in the Victorian Alpine region

    Are you calling me a liar, GD? I’ve run this business for over 10 years and over that time we’ve had many recent immigrants (including former asylum seekers) stay here as paying guests. I guess you just can’t fathom (or admit) the fact that a lot of the arrivals over the past 10 years are actually full citizens, are in gainful employment and are living normal lives as per other Australians. You see them all as bludgers.

    Victoria already has a burgeoning problem with violent Sudanese youths

    I agree that there seems to be an inherent violence problem among young Sudanese and some are not settling in well. It needs to be dealt with. But I also point out: (1) they’re not boat people and are being admitted via normal programs, so I very much doubt your precious Coalition will ‘send them back’ or stop admitting African refugees too. (2) We also have burgeoning problems with violent youths in general and (3) we’ve also had problems involving violence with Italian & Vietnamese immigrants in the past (and present). Why you would single out Sudanese and other muslims as ‘unsuitable’ citizens is rather mystifying. Oh, then again, given your record of muslim-bashing, it speaks for itself.

    Whether it is by immigration or humanitarian welfare, we are importing a festering sore of humanity that is intent on recreating the mess that is evident today in the Middle East.

    Do you really think that’s what these immigrants and refugees want, GD? Do you really think they want to tear the place up and turn Australia into a chaotic war zone? You’re either prone to extreme exaggeration or just shit-frightened of anyone different …. or both. I reckon it’s both.

    Leftards such as yourself prefer to ignore this festering problem and instead like to bash our good ole aussie bogans.

    Firstly, GD, I’m not a “leftard” and my views are more central (and in some cases, quite conservative) so please don’t put ridiculous labels on me. And my comments about Aussie bogans do not mean I am opposed to their existence or that I’m “bashing” them in the same way you “bash” muslims. I’m not saying they should be shipped out (or exterminated) and in fact I’m quite happy for their continued presence as part of our diversified society. But that doesn’t mean I can’t or shouldn’t point out that they exist and/or poke a bit of fun at their “culture”, such as it is. Nor is that a trait exclusive among those on the left, in fact I think you’ll find bogans are mocked as much by conservatives as by others.

    Why are you so intent on committing cultural suicide?

    Christ you’re a pessimist.

    Your suggestion that I relocate is idiotic. Eventually there will be nowhere to relocate to.

    Christ you’re a pessimist.

  71. Tony says:

    Some fair points Ray, so lets look at a couple ?

    (1) they’re not boat people and are being admitted via normal programs, so I very much doubt your precious Coalition will ‘send them back’ or stop admitting African refugees too.

    You have forgotten the problems, that have occurred in western Sydney, as well as inner Melbourne the last thirty years or so ? The problems again, stem from cultural differences, and again, the common occurrence of tribal gang warfare that is now so prevalent in Australia. Whoever gains power, when the election is eventually called, cannot send them back. Rudd, and Gillard have stuffed that option up for all time. BUT, we can sit at our borders, and say enough is enough, and send the boats back to Indonesia.

    (2) We also have burgeoning problems with violent youths in general and

    These problems that you refer to, are generally coming to the fore, not in the refugees, or new immigrants themselves, but their kids, and grandkids. (apart from the ones that are burning down of their lodgings, to hasten up their claim times ?). The problems are with the youths. They are not adjusting to our way of life at all. They are being taught by their parents, that we have opened our doors to, and have inherited all their prejudices and hatreds, and are going out on the streets, continuing the battles, like they were back in bloody Beirut ? Thats the continuing problem that we face, and also the basis for the increasing reverse discrimination that develops from it ?

    (3) we’ve also had problems involving violence with Italian & Vietnamese immigrants in the past (and present). Why you would single out Sudanese and other muslims as ‘unsuitable’ citizens is rather mystifying. Oh, then again, given your record of muslim-bashing, it speaks for itself.

    Yes we have. There are now many “no-go” suburbs in most of our capital cities because of it ?

    As for Muslum Bashing well, looks like you haven’t heard the rhetoric coming out of the imams in the last few months. They have no qualms in stating PUBLICLY that their aim, is for Australia to be a Muslum State in less than twenty years ! That is pretty frightening to consider, especially considering that there is only one way that can be achieved. By threats of violence and intimidation ! To ignore this rhetoric, is inherrently dangerous and extremely ignorant of what is happening elsewhere in the world.
    After all, this battle, is the reason why these people have probably hit the bloody boats in the first place ?

    I wonder if anyone watched the forum on ABC this afternoon disussing this very issue. The panel of so called ‘experts’, were seemingly suffering the same problem as the respective parties seeking government are. They are too frightened to come off the fence on this issue, as in whatever the decision, everyone loses all in the battle for political correctness ?

    The boats are coming from Indonesia. They have the right idea. Fuel em up, and send them our way. Indonesia has categorically stated, that they will not accept any boats returning to their harbours ! Well, what happens now then ?

    If Abbot wins, and sends even ONE boat back, and the crazy Indonesians sink the bloody thing, there would be a world outcry !

    So, after watching this show this afternoon, I feel that what is coming from both sides of politics regarding the issue, is merely rhetoric and grandstanding. Nothing will change. We, whether right or wrong, are a compassionate, generous people, hell bent on saving the world, and will just continue to suck it up and accept them. If it were me, I would get our military, under guise, infiltrate Indonesia, where these people smugglers hang out, and “trash” them all, including their boats. The Indonesian government know who they are, and where they are, but are too gutless to do anything about the problem. After all, it’s not their problem when the boats are fuelled up and are headed our way ? As was suggested on this panel today, our navy has to increase it’s patrol region. It has to park itself in the region of the Indian Ocean, in international waters, west of Indonesia, and deal with the boats there.

  72. GD says:

    Thanks for your comments Tony.

    Ray you have really lowered the bar with this statement:

    I’m not saying they should be shipped out (or exterminated)

    exterminated? what the hell are you thinking to use that word?

  73. Tony says:

    You didn’t comment on whether or not my comments were of any worth GD ? Am interested ?
    Did you happen to see the forum on ABC yesterday afternoon ? It was a real eye opener.

  74. Ray Dixon says:

    Tony,

    (1) We certainly can (and do) deport any new arrival who commits a serious crime. Nothing has changed there.

    (2) I don’t think there’s any evidence that the children of immigrants & refugees are more violent than the children of other Australians. You’ve missed my point: youth violence is a problem across the board.

    (3) My point about violence among Italian & Vietnamese is that it has largely subsided over the decades. Likewise, I believe the incidence of violence among Sudanese youth will also eventually subside. All new groups take time to assimilate.

    As for some imams stating that their aim is for Australia to be a Muslim State, they are just in (and appealing to) a small minority of ratbags. Muslims are not here to take us over and, quite frankly, wouldn’t be capable of doing so. Even the half serious threats to our safety and way of life coming out of the idiot minority are being adequately dealt with and I have every confidence in our police and other enforcement authorities to continue their good work in weeding them out. Again, this is an assimilation problem that will dissipate over time. It’s not a deal breaker and it is not grounds for fear mongering and cracking down on certain races or religious groups.

    GD,
    My use of the word “exterminated” was not meant to be serious and I think you know that. It’s interesting that that was the only criticism you had of my entire comment. At least Tony had a go at replying earnestly, albeit misguided.

  75. Tony says:

    (1) Sorry to disagree with you Ray, but when was the last time you saw a refugee sent home for a crime committed ?
    I haven’t ! An immigrant, certainly, but NEVER a refugee.

    Misguided, I don’t think so, but unlike yourself, NOT caught dead to rights, believing every little bit of biased propaganda coming out of the Canberran machine ?

    (2) You are absolutely correct there. Youth violence is definitely out of control within our communities. Australians bloody included. No argument. My whole point, and anger, is not pointed towards our youth. Lets face it, we all got up to mischief when we were that age, only difference nowadays, is that mischief has turned to violence and drugs, mostly unheard of in my youth at least. (Don’t know about yours ? 😉 )

    My blame here is squarely aimed at the elders within these groups. The ones, that we have greeted with open arms, and allowed in. These are the ones, stirring up the youth, and getting them to fight/continue the wars on their behalf ?
    Turf wars, religious wars, drug wars, and God knows everything else ? They’re the ones, whose attitudes we have to change, otherwise, the training that they put their own kids through, to perpertrate this violent lifestyle, will continue onward forever, down the generational chain ?

    (2) I think that is where you are wrong. I think that as time goes by, they are considered by the powers that be, (when the trouble starts), to be normal Australians, and not part of some ethnic group. The figures get tangled, as they invariably do, and portray a totally different situation to what is actually true ?

    How long do we give them to assimilate Ray ? Five years, ten, or in the case of the Vietnamese triads in Richmond, and the lebonese gangs of western Sydney, twenty, thirty plus years ? That is just ‘burying your head in the sand’ stuff. Again, the problems are not being caused by the refugees/immigrants themselves, but their progeny. It’s all about ‘control”. Who ever in the community has it, rules ! Simple as that. A battle that is time immemorial itself. That is not the Australian way, no matter how tolerant we are, that is the crap that has to stop !

    There is only one way to do that, and that is with a bloody big stick. After all, for the last thirty plus years, the carrot approach hasn’t worked has it ?

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