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Home » AFL footy » Was Adam ‘aping’ Nicky Winmar?

Was Adam ‘aping’ Nicky Winmar?

(by Ray Dixon – no, it’s not a footy post per se, it’s about racism … or not)

adam-goodes-aped

She’s just a kid , Adam, get over it.

ape
Noun: A large primate (families Pongidae and Hylobatidae) that lacks a tail, including the gorilla, chimpanzees, orangutan, and gibbons.

Verb: Imitate the behavior or manner of (someone or something), esp. in an absurd or unthinking way.

I have to say it: I really think Sydney’s Adam Goodes went over-the-top with his very public confrontation and finger-pointing of a thirteen-year-old girl for calling him an “ape” in the dying minutes of last night’s Collingwood v Sydney game.

The amount of news coverage this fairly innocuous incident has generated has been extraordinary … and I have to wonder if Adam Goodes knew it would do that. 

Goodes pointed out the girl to ground security who then escorted her from the venue. He then left the field immediately after the siren “shattered and distraught” with the girl’s behaviour, thereby adding to the drama. And he kept it up in interviews: 

‘‘I am pretty gutted to be honest. To win, the first of its kind in 13 years, to win by 47 points against Collingwood, to play such a pivotal role, it sort of means nothing,’’

‘‘To come to the boundary line, to hear a 13-year-old girl call me an ape – and it’s not the first time on a footy field that I have been referred to as a monkey or an ape – it was shattering.”

‘‘I turned around, and when I saw it was a young girl, and I thought she was 14, that was my initial thought, I was just like: ‘Really, how could that happen?’’

nickywinmar2
Don’t get me wrong – it’s not acceptable to call aborigines “apes” or “monkeys” but even Goodes acknowledges that he instantly recognised the source of the “ape” call was barely a teenager.

A little girl.

Wouldn’t you think a man of his stature – over 300 games, two Brownlows, two Premierships, a superstar of the game – would just shrug it off once he realised his vilifier was a little kid? It hardly seems worth all the fuss.

It just so happened that this was Indigenous Round and, not only that, the 20th anniversary of Nicky Winmar’s famous stance against racial abuse (also involving Collingwood supporters).

Nicky Winmar was clearly justified in his stance but the differences here are many, including that Winmar was indeed subject to a tirade of racist abuse from a wide section of the crowd, whereas Adam was called an “ape” by just one little girl.

In the dying moments of a game that was already won. On Friday night TV.

I think Goodes over-reacted here and may have milked this incident to create his own ‘Nicky Winmar moment’ in history. You know, the day he stood up to racism too. 

Maybe he should have lifted his jumper and pointed to his skin, if he wanted so badly to replicate Winmar’s brave stance. He failed.

And maybe the 13-year-old should have chosen her taunt more carefully.

I’d suggest next time she calls him one (or more) of the following:

  • “Attention whore”
  • “Bully”
  • “Kiddy abuser”
  • “Weak bastard”
  • Drama queen”
  • “Ugly bearded yobbo”

I reckon he’d cry about those too.

.

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50 Comments

  1. Andrea says:

    Wow – I thought I was alone. I don’t really watch much football. In fact I’ve only recently become a sort of fan. I read about this incident and saw Goodes in his press interview. I am of a similar view, this was an amusing and accurate article. Adam Goodes needs to grow up a little and surely with such a successful career behind him perhaps he can find the ‘strength’ to put aside the bad memories of being teased in his childhood (the way we all have) and go in search of a backbone.

    It would have shown more strength of character if he would have shrugged the incident off. Perhaps he might have mentioned after the game that he heard someone in the crowd call him an ‘ape’ and that it would be great if people were more accepting of differences but to point to a little girl in the crowd and make such a scene was ridiculous. I wonder what teasing she will get in her week back at school – does Goodes really want to subject her to the same taunts and teasing he supposedly endured as a child?

    Thank you for your response. I think you have summed this up very well. Maybe we just all need to relax a little.

  2. deknarf says:

    So does that mean that Australians of UK and European origin will no longer be called ‘whitey’ or ‘skippy’? That’d be nice!
    Oh! And I believe that as a generalistic term among those of anthropological bent ‘homo sapiens’ is often referred to as the ‘naked ape’! Fancy that!

  3. Ray Dixon says:

    Andrea, it’s surprised me that no one in the mainstream media has expressed doubts over Goodes’ singling out of this little girl and his after-match histrionics. He has done far more damage to her than she could ever do to him, regardless of the “ape” call. She was humiliated on national TV, the cameras directly on her shattered face for ages. Then she was escorted from the ground in tears. Worse still, she’s been publicly named and subject to abuse herself as reported in The Age: “On Saturday, Julia was the target of abuse on social media sites”. This incident will affect her psychologically for the rest of her life. For using one word!

    Deknarf, “Whitey” and “Skippy” are not offensive terms. As for Goodes, well calling him a “Homo” might have been an apt description too but I wonder what he’d have done then? Personally, I think calling Goodes a “Neanderthal” would have got around any racial concerns … and would have been a most appropriate description.

  4. Stephen Sutton says:

    Adam Goodes milked this incident for all it was worth.
    Does Jason Dunstall cry foul when he is called “chief” for looking like a gorllla. No, he shrugs it off and has a laugh.
    Did Mick Nolan carry on when he was called the galloping gasometer. You could go on and on.
    The young girl did absolutely nothing wrong, nothing to do with racism at all. He should apologise to her for his ridiculous
    over -reaction.
    Johnathon Brown said when Cameron LIng works up a sweat he goes all pink and looks like a pig. Ling would of had a good laugh.
    I wonder if Goodes calls his coach, John Longmuire, “the horse”.

  5. Ray Dixon says:

    Calling an aborigine an “ape” is a lot worse than your other examples, Steve, but you’re right about him milking the incident.

    My own opinion is that Adam Goodes wanted his ‘Nicky Winmar moment’ in history.

    Well, he’s got it now – he sure showed that 13-year-old up, didn’t he? What a man.

  6. Stuart.W says:

    Gotta agree Ray, the main stream media have a lot to answer for as well. Their coverage is way over the the top. I hope we’re not moving to a situation where people have lost the right to offend someone, just because he or she is of a certain race.
    After all that is what Islam expects.

  7. Ray Dixon says:

    I hope we’re not moving to a situation where people have lost the right to offend someone, just because he or she is of a certain race.

    We lost that so-called “right” a long time ago – when the Racial Vilification laws came in.

    And rightly so, unless you think it’s okay to slur someone on the basis of their race! It’s not..

    Although I would put this incident in the very minor category and hardly worth the attention it got, especially considering the relative status of the ‘victim’ (a highly paid, highly awarded & respected 33-year-old man) versus a little 13-year-old girl.

    And it’s got nothing to do with Islam so let’s stick to the topic.

  8. Stuart.W says:

    If i don’t agree with what you say, and am offended by it I should be allowed to state my case. I shouldn’t be intimidated into not speaking my mind because you are of certain beliefs or race.

    Stick to the topic you say. Well the koran says. “He who offends Islam shall be punished, by death”.

    I retain the right to offend you or any one else as they have the right to offend me.

    Even when I agree with you, you still manage to pick a fight.

  9. Ray Dixon says:

    I’m not picking a fight, Stuart. I have merely pointed out that you do not have a “right” to offend people by slurring them along race lines. It’s against the law. It’s been that way for some time and the race vilification laws are even supported by the conservatives. If you have a problem with the law, write to your local MP, and don’t complain to me about it.

    And this topic is not about Islam. I’m not surprised that you would want to widen it to include another pet hate but not on my watch buddy, and not on my post. Now please stay on topic and keep your pants on. Talk about Goodes and his hissyfit but leave your offended pride and your anti-muslim stance out of it please.

  10. Stuart.W says:

    I’ve never advocated the right to offend people on race lines. Point out where I Did. I merely pointed out the right to offend. As you do often, with your words.

  11. GD says:

    it’s surprised me that no one in the mainstream media has expressed doubts over Goodes’ singling out of this little girl and his after-match histrionics.

    Actually Bolt wrote a post about it yesterday. Said much the same thing as you did.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/andrewbolt/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/goodes_should_not_let_one_collingwood_teenager_have_this_power/

  12. Stuart.W says:

    GD, Did you know Ray has actually blogged with Bolt. Also he doesn’t deny tuning in on Sunday.

  13. Ray Dixon says:

    GD, even a stuck clock like Bolt gets it right now & then. I don’t disagree with everything he says, just most of what he says.

    Stuart: “I’ve never advocated the right to offend people on race lines. Point out where I Did”

    In your very first comment on this thread you said:

    “I hope we’re not moving to a situation where people have lost the right to offend someone, just because he or she is of a certain race.”

    And then in your next comment you said:

    “I shouldn’t be intimidated into not speaking my mind because you are of certain beliefs or race.”

    I know you’ll try to weasel out of it, Stuart, but it’s pretty clear that you advocated a “right” to offend on race lines.

    As for your last comment, not worth a reply.

  14. Ray Dixon says:

    And GD, just to prove I’m not as one-eyed as some people are, I’ve now read that Bolt link. Yeah, he’s saying much the same as I have, although I think he goes a bit further and appears a tad too indignant about the whole race issue. But his last sentence is completely in synch with my own views:

    “I do not defend for an instant the insult. But I suspect the person who will be most scarred by the incident is a 13-year-old girl so publicly identfied and vilified.”

    Agreed. I genuinely feel for that girl. Imagine the week she’ll have at school – her life’s a bit of mess right now, I’d say.

  15. Stuart.W says:

    Let me simpilfy things Ray, so that even you cannot pretend to misunderstand.

    You a gutless mongrel dog, a coward of the highest order, you stink and never go near my children. I could say that to any one of any race and it could not be taken as racist.

    However, those of the PC bleeding heart brigade will make it racist.

    Ray I can offend and abuse who ever I like, then not complain when I get it back. Unlike you.

  16. Ray Dixon says:

    Yes, we certainly understand you now, Stuart.

    I can offend and abuse who ever I like, then not complain when I get it back. Unlike you.

    You’ve just explained the classic anonymous coward’s position – “I’m anonymous so I’ll offend you and you can’t touch or damage me because no one knows who I am”. Bravo, Stuart. Well done.

  17. Stuart.W says:

    Oh and by the way Ray, I’ll take the last line of your 6.27 comment as yes you have, (It’s recorded) and yes you do watch him because you don’t deny it.

  18. Stuart.W says:

    Who on a blog is not anonymous? Wake up, blogs are all about it on the WWW. And what in the hell do you expect me to do come all the way to Bright, introduce myself, then come back home to suburbia just to correct your countless errors?

    I know who a true coward is, it’s one who lives in constant denial.

  19. Ray Dixon says:

    I’m not anonymous here. Nor is Iain. Our public profiles, work, home address etc are quite well known. People know who GD is in real life too and what he does. And Craigy.

    But yeah, most people are anonymous on the net but, unlike you, they don’t see that as a license to abuse and insult those who aren’t.

    Have you had enough yet? We have. We really don’t need any more evidence of your cretinous attitude mate but keep it going if you like – it’s quite, um, enlightening.

  20. Stuart.W says:

    Ray I’m not anonymous here either.

    You can’t have it both ways Ray, encourage comments then demand to know who they are. It wouldn’t matter anonimity or not, you’re wrong more often than you’re right.

    That’s my opinion anyway, that’s what makes blogging so enjoyable. Goodnight Ray, no offence given. none taken.

  21. Ray Dixon says:

    Stuart W – you are anonymous.

    I don’t know (or care) who you are. Nor does anyone else. But don’t kid yourself and don’t lie – you ARE totally anonymous here.

    And I don’t “demand to know” who you are. I don’t care who you are. I simply say (as you’re anonymous) that you show some respect to those here who are not.

    Is that too hard for you to comprehend?

    Yeah … thought so.

  22. Indii says:

    I see you are still “chatting” to yourself Ray….

  23. Ray Dixon says:

    What do you mean? I’ve been “chatting” to a few people here (including Stuart, unfortunately) but not to myself. I see you’re still as obscure as ever, Indii.

  24. Stuart.W says:

    Don’t speak for other people Ray. “Nor does anyone else”

    I’m a little less anonymous than you think Ray. You see I know people in your area who Know you, guess what Ray nobody likes you. Your a friendless unhappy soul, it shows in your writing.

  25. Ray Dixon says:

    Stuart, you are anonymous “here”, to others reading this. Your comment about knowing people in my area etc is probably bullshit but it’s typical of your offensive, cowardly, sniping and arrogant style. You have a personal swipe at everyone who disagrees with your opinion (as you did to the other commenters on my blog) but you particularly single me out because of the amount of personal information there is (or was) available on me. That’s just crap behaviour, Stuart, and quite frankly it’s creepy.

    Bugger off, you creep.

  26. Ray Dixon says:

    Eddie McGuire (Collingwood President) compounds the issue by suggesting – on radio – that Adam Goodes comes to Melbourne to promote the King Kong musical because, you know, being an “ape” and all that just seems to fit. Hilarious, Eddie. From ABC Online:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-29/eddie-mcguire-apologises-for-adam-goodes-king-kong-comment/4720152

    “When I realised what had been said, about 20 seconds later, I went and did an air check… I immediately retracted and apologised… I wasn’t trying to be a smart aleck, certainly not to racially vilify anyone.

    McGuire: “Get Adam Goodes down for it do you reckon?”
    Darcy: “No I wouldn’t have thought so, absolutely not.”
    McGuire: “You can see them doing that can’t you?”
    Darcy: “Who?”
    McGuire: “Goodsey.”
    Darcy: “What’s that?”
    McGuire: “You know with the ape thing, the whole thing, I’m just saying the pumping him up and mucking around and all that sort of stuff.”

    Um, Eddie, what you said was 100 times worse than what that little girl said. Congratulations, dickhead – you’ve just given Goodes justification for his initial hissyfit.

  27. Andrea says:

    I’ve come back to this blog after a few days. The more I think about this the more angry I become! How dare this foul man subject such a young person to ridicule, hardship and embarrassment in this way? Who the hell does he think he is? How pathetic with his little finger point! Poor Mr. Goodes, couldn’t even enjoy his win due to the devastating words of a young girl who called him names.

    What should I do? I would very much like to be face to face with Adam Goodes to explain how his actions which gave him a five minutes of fame segment on television has left others to clean up his mess.

    The Sydney Swans Football club has undoubtedly had to be in touch with the family and school of this young girl.
    The security personal (I believe) had to take care of the ‘situation’ on the night with some reluctance.
    The young girls teachers have had to be on high alert so as to protect the girl from any bullying at school that I’m sure she was subjected to.
    The family of the young girl who have had to put up with media attention and support their daughter
    The grandmother who couldn’t walk away with her granddaughter on the day because she had all her other grandchildren with her
    Andrew Demetriou who has had to waste time discussing this stupid issue with the media when he should be focussing on getting Essendon’s name cleared so they can get back to doing what they do best.

    Thank you Adam Goodes for your mess! Wow ….what a man indeed! It surely takes a real man to stand up for what is right in such a way. I’m swooning.

    By the way, I was a teacher for quite a number of years. Wonderful years – BUT …I invite Mr. Goodes to try doing it for a year. I don’t kow that being called an ‘Ape’ at a public secondary school quite warrants the tears we witnessed from this star athlete.

  28. GD says:

    Well said Andrea.

  29. Iain Hall says:

    I tend to think that as laudable as the AFL is in seeking to “address” Racism that the way they are going about it will ultimately be unsuccessful and that all it will do is repress the outward expressions of racism while the core beliefs will remain fester like a puss filled canker. In fact by playing the victim card the likes of this footy player just diminishes himself.

  30. Ray Dixon says:

    On the contrary, Iain, the AFL has been years ahead of the general community in addressing racism, largely bought on by the stands made by Nicky Winmar and Michael Long about 20 years ago.

    It seems there are still trouble spots though – chiefly @ the club called Collingwood, which is where the issue was first highlighted by Winmar in 1993. Not long after that event the then Collingwood President (McAlister) delivered this little gem: “Aborigal players are welcome at Collingwood as long as they behave like whites”, which really forced the AFL to act. Now 20 years later we have the current day Collingwood President sticking his foot in it too. McGuire’s gaffe reveals that the culture of that club hasn’t changed a lot. I’d suggest that culture stems from the top and that McGuire should actually step down.

    As for Adam Goodes, the little girl’s “ape” call was certainly innocuous and I reckon there’s no doubt Goodes over-reacted, But overall, racism in the AFL has largely subsided, to the point where I think a little kid calling a player an “ape” is hardly even a racial slur. Surely Goodes has more self esteem than to get hurt by something like that.

  31. apeman says:

    adam goodes does look a little ape-ish but not cause of his colour his beard does it has anyone ever heard of albino apes goodes is like an insecure schoolchild who sees himself as a victim i was called a monkey my whole life and i am white as they come take a good hard look at yourself goodsey and think about what you did to that poor little girl your a dickhead goodes (a white one if that helps)

  32. Ray Dixon says:

    I think Goodes just wanted to be seen to be taking a stand, “apeman”. He overdid it, although now he’s got Eddie-the-mouth to point his finger at.

    Btw, a comma (and especially a full stop) here and there would make your comment much easier to understand.

  33. holmesr64 says:

    Hee hee- it always makes me laugh to read white people arguing that black people shouldn’t make such a fuss when they are racially abused, even on a day that is especially set aside in the AFL season to “…celebrate our country’s Indigenous culture and players that have shaped Australia’s Game”.

    And just to reflect on your claim that the ‘poor girl’ is the real victim here, who has been hounded on social media, this quote from The Australian of 1 June: “At a state secondary college east of Melbourne, the girl who called Goodes an ape has been the hero of the playground this week. Her mother, Joanne Looney, tells Inquirer the other kids have been great. ‘Everything has basically been turned into a joke at school,’ she says. ‘They are calling each other apes and laughing.'”

  34. Ray Dixon says:

    Thanks for your comment, holmesr, but as the author of this post I want to make it clear that I am totally opposed to racial abuse of indigenous players. However, I stand by my position here that Adam Goodes fingerpointing of a 13 year-old who just happened to shout out “You’re an ape” was an overreaction on his part. She probably didn’t even know what it meant and Goodes himself acknowledged that he recognised the ‘abuser’ was very young.

  35. holmesr64 says:

    That’s fine, I’m glad you’re opposed to racial abuse- but when you pose yourself as adjudicator of what is racist and what isn’t, and who should be sanctioned for their vilification and who should not, well that’s a qualified opposition isn’t it. Shouldn’t that be in the hands of those who have been abused, and secondly those who deal with these matters (in this case the AFL)?
    You dull your “total opposition to racial abuse” somewhat by titling your page ‘Was Adam ‘aping’ Nicky Winmar?” A classic Boltian disingenuous choice of words there.
    In the sum of your posts above, you claim that Goodes overreacted- ‘come on mate, it’s not that bad, be a man will ya, she’s just a kid, jeez can’t you take it, stick and stones and all that…’ Not that far from Alan McAlister’s golden words (you got his quote partially wrong above) “As long as they conduct themselves like white people, well, off the field, everyone will admire them and respect them.” I argue
    Besides all of this, your criticism of Goodes picking on a young girl intimates that this was a premeditated attack: that Goodes wanted his ‘Winmar’ moment, tailor-made on the Indigenous round; that Goodes immediately knew the abuse was from a young girl. All of this is plainly ridiculous- don’t you think the abuse could have felt even harsher given that it was the Indigenous round? Do you really honestly think that in the heat of that moment Goodes was thinking about immortalising himself in AFL/Aboriginal history? Do you think instead of demanding the abuser was dealt with by the authorities, Goodes should have sat down with the girl and discussed the deepere meaning of racist epithets over a cup of tea? You know, the game could have waited couldn’t it.
    No, you prefer to believe that Adam Goodes thought instanteously and cunningly to deliberately use (I’m surprised you didn’t claim he set it all up actually) the situation as a personal and political setpiece.
    Again, a disingenuous angle, which I tend to think belies a deeper, Bolt-style resentment. And you call Goodes an attention-seeker.
    Finally, you chose to ignore the quote from the girl’s mother. Kind of belies your claim that she was driven to near-suicide by vilification…

  36. Ray Dixon says:

    I didn’t “pose myself as adjudicator”, I merely said that in my opinion the abuse was very minor (as well as coming from a minor) and his reaction was over-the-top.

    As for Goodes milking the incident for a Winmar moment, that’s how it looked, although obviously he didn’t “set it up”. He knew it would be widely covered. He got to make his stance. Again, that is my opinion and I hope you have the good grace to allow people to have different points of view without labelling them one thing or the other.

    I don’t cop the Bolt comparison though. He went much further than I did and used the incident as yet another chance to engage in ‘abo bashing’, which is his style.

  37. holmesr64 says:

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, however everyone must be prepared to defend their opinion. I am questioning the basis on which you came to your opinion.
    Your post clearly, unequivocally and I argue harshly judged the moment and Goodes’ reaction. Yes, it’s your opinion but you are postulating on another person’s state of mind, actions and motivation- and all in wonderful hindsight, whereas Goodes acted in the moment to what was in front of him. Your follow-on sneering remark that Goodes ‘milked it’ in post-match interviews continues to ignore my point that his state of mind, in the first game of the Indigenous round, as an Aboriginal person who has been abused many times, on the anniversary of the Winmar incident, maybe-just-maybe is a little different to what a middle-aged white man might postulate. But that’s just another middle-aged white man talking.
    If you want to defend your opinion, you could reply to the points I have made here and previously that question your arguments. If you don’t feel the need to defend your opinion, well there you go.
    Lastly, the Bolt reference was not in relation to his writing about this particular incident- I didn’t and haven’t read it. It was in relation to his sneering, sarcastic tone and loaded headlines (hence the ‘aping’ headline).

  38. Ray Dixon says:

    I think you just like to argue, Holmes. No, I don’t intend to justify my opinion – I merely called it as I saw it, being that Adam Goodes over-reacted to a very minor slur (by a minor). And kept it up afterwards.

  39. holmesr64 says:

    That’s great. You’re welcome to your opinion, however if you can’t defend it, don’t play the ‘I have a right to my own opinion’ card. You’ll just sound stupid, like a little boy stamping his foot shouting ‘because I said so!!”
    Or at least, don’t post it on a social site like this one, because you know, people respond, and they challenge your ideas, and they ask questions, and it will sort get sticky if you can’t defend yourself. So, you know…

  40. Ray Dixon says:

    I HAVE defended it – in the post. No more to be said, unless you just want to play semantics. I don’t.

  41. holmesr64 says:

    Good on you- except you have chosen not to explain how your white, middle-aged comfortable existence qualifies you to pontificate on why Goodes was milking it. Anyway I’ve already explained what I mean by that and it’s too hard for you to respond to that particular point (among many others) so I’ll let you go.
    Don’t worry, I won’t keep on your back, you have nothing to say of substance.

  42. Ray Dixon says:

    My “existence” entitles me to an opinion on Goodes as much as you are entitled to yours. In my opinion he was far too quick to ‘point his finger’ (literally) at that little girl. Nicky Winmar didn’t ‘point his finger’ at anyone but himself. He didn’t act like a hurt child, even though he was being horribly abused by hundreds (if not thousands) of vile Collingwood supporters @ Victoria Park in 1993. No, he stood tall like a man, lifted his jumper, pointed to his skin and said, “I’m black and I’m proud of it”. In other words he rose above the racism, whereas Goodes gave into it. Gave in to the one-word taunt of a 13-year old. Says it all – he’s no Winmar.

  43. holmesr64 says:

    Ray you are really not a thoughtful person are you. First you accuse me of just wanting to argue (read: stop questioning me), then you resort to calling Goodes a ‘hurt child’. So that’s your sum total perspective on Aborigines calling out racist abuse. Wow- deep. Why don’t you head over to my page and read what I have to say on it, and think a little more about how generations of racism can play out on the football field.

  44. Ray Dixon says:

    That might be because your “questions” are more like accusations, Holmes (eg “Ray you are really not a thoughtful person are you?” is not really a question but a slur and an accusation). I think you’ve jumped in feet first here without knowing my background. If you went through Iain’s blog (not that I expect you to) you’d find I’m a strong advocate for better treatment of aborigines and very vocal against other commenters who engage in any kind of racial abuse. You’ve just seen my post as anti-Goodes and (therefore) you’ve assumed I must be anti-aborigines too. However, I’m just making the point that this particular incident was blown out of proportion and actually put the cause back 20 years.

  45. holmesr64 says:

    I don’t doubt your beliefs- nevertheless, you have chosen to belittle and trivialise Goodes and his reaction to abuse. Who are you to decide how another person judges the severity of racial abuse? That is not an opinion- it’s a judgement.

  46. Ray Dixon says:

    It’s just your opinion that my opinion is not an opinion.

    You seem to be on some kind of weird mission here, mate. You’re the one doing the “judging” by the look of your manic posting.

  47. holmesr64 says:

    Lol Ray, why don’t you just say ‘I know you are!!’ Good luck with your future attempts.

  48. Ray Dixon says:

    I know you are … having a lend of yourself.

  49. holmesr64 says:

    I just feel sad for you now,

  50. Ray Dixon says:

    Don’t be ridiculous – you just came here looking for a fight. You didn’t get one, so then you absurdly suggest I’ll attempt to identify you!

    Mate, don’t flatter yourself.

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