Interesting developments in the death throes of the Gillard regime,as the Fairfax press report that key backers are apparently reconsidering their support for the embattled Ranga. Of great amusement to me is that the Australian is running a story denying that there Bob Carr, one of the key players in this end game is wavering in his support for Gillard. With her bait and switch attempt thanks to Comrade Conroy descended in to utter farce and humiliation as both the idea of this new “oversight” mechanism and the ineptitude of the way that Conroy has tried to ram it through the Parliament backfires badly with all but the out of tune lead singers of the Gillard Glee Club realising that this is a doomed project and its going to take Labor with it. We see Labor spin in ever decreasing circles around its own plug hole .
What lurks under the plug?
Clearly the impending Gillard implosion may suit the barrackers for the Rundestration push but I personally don’t see how a credible government can be made from the clump of soggy pubic hair that will be dragged out of the drain after the Gillard gurgle has grunted its last graceless gasp. Would even the most dedicated Labor voter have any joy or confidence in the party when faced with that pencil stub and the ballot paper? Oh I know that many dyed in the wool true believers will still vote Labor at the next election they won’t be able to do with their hand that which their heads tell them is necessary but it will be with a bleak resignation rather than any joy or devotion to the party, and that dear friends is the tragedy here that a party formed under a bent gum tree at Barcaldine which and has held the faith of ordinary working people for a century has been slowly committing suicide since 2010. There have been too many errors of judgement, from both Rudd and Gillard and too many times that they have taken the people for granted and even when Gillard’s Coup and the subsequent reduction of Rudd’s sizeable majority into a a whimpering minority government beholden to both the loopy Greens and even loopier “independents” and now as the endgame unfolds all we see is farce played out with a deadly earnestness that demonstrates just how unfit to rule Labor has become.
Will Abbott be better? The Gillard Glee Club have been hyperventilating about every possible scare that they can invoke, from dawn to dusk they have been insisting that the sky will fall and that we will be plunged into a “new dark age” of repressive 1950’s proportions, women will be chained to sinks, and forbidden to either close their legs or wear shoes according unreconstructed Glee club . The Warminista faithful are certain that an Abbott government will condemn us to being fried by Gaia‘s wrath while they sip their Lattes by the beach. The vested interests tremble in fear that their Rolls Royce dreams of the NBN will not be delivered as promised by Gillard ( like, who but the Glee Club believed it anyway?) but people like my neighbour just dream about getting ADSL rather than the wonky satellite broadband they have to put up with because our exchange has only limited ports. Every where you look in the political landscape there is disappointment caused by the grandiose promises mouthed by Labor and the lack of subsequent delivery and its that disappointment that will ensure that the Abbott government which makes much more modest promises endures for far longer than Labor has since 2007. There are certainly things that Abbott is likely to do that I think will not be of benefit to the country, their climate change policy is one of them and I think it could at this point be quietly dropped in its entirety but it won’t be. In the some category is the submarine program and the Joint strike fighter purchase In the age of the drone and the attack helicopter I cant for the life of me see what we need either.
I don’t see Abbott falling for the short-sightedness of rushing to placate the sectional interests of his own party either because its clear to me that he is playing a long game here and that game recognises that rashness and “crash through” thinking creates more problems than it solves. The desire for administrative longevity should see a rather more dull political landscape in the opinion of this humble scribe and after the last five years of “Labor excitement” I think that I am going to be very good with a few years of dull and predictable.
Cheers Comrades
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Iain Hall's SANDPIT 
Iain, since day one, you & the other rusted-ons like GD have been saying pretty much that about Labor. And you’ve been hyperventilating and blowing every mistake out of proportion. Pretty rich to point the finger at others.
Besides, how exactly are you worse off post 2007? How exactly is anyone worse off as a result of the ALP getting ‘a turn’ after 11 years of tired old Howard? The reality is the opposite of what you state and there’s no compelling argument to change governments, only a compelling argument to change PMs (Rudd for Gillard), which thankfully looks like happening pretty soon.
You’re sounding like a Collingwood supporter with all your one-eyed barracking, Iain, but your team just ain’t up to it.
It’s a good question and one I have often asked my friends and acquaintances who continually bitch and moan about Gillard. Take the bloke who lives next door for example, he is always complaining about how she is “ruining the country” and we’ll all soon be broke. But since 2010 he hired four new staff at his business, bought a new 4WD, been on two overseas holidays and paid for his daughter’s wedding at $20k. Yes, Julia has certainly ruined his life. That’s not to say that nobody is worse off now than in 2010, of course. I am sure that some are. But it’s worth looking at those who bark the loudest about Gillard, e.g. Clive Palmer and Gina Rinehart, and adopt a bit of perspective.
In a similar vein, I don’t fear an Abbott government. It won’t be the end of the world if he gets up. I just don’t think he is prime ministerial material in the slightest. I also wouldn’t expect much from any government he leads, because I think the current Liberal leadership lacks vision, initiative and the desire to do anything except hold office. They’ll do nothing and spend nothing for 2.5 years then pork-barrel to get re-elected.
I’m no expert on these things Iain but I believe that jet fighters fly about three times faster than helicopters, while drones can’t fly underwater.
WAS Abbott aware of pedophiles in the Catholic Church, when he was training to be a Catholic Priest——-or was it all crap like climate change.
Ray
I certainly have been having fun taking the piss about Labor’s many foibles and Faux pas’ but you could hardly compare that the the paranoid Abbott is the anti-Christ ranting from the far left like here
Well the Labor party are so discredited its hard to satirise or mock them any more, Oh how I used to love refering to Kevin Rudd as “Brother Number One”
Having a fiscal turnaround from a surplus to a large debt can’t be good by my reckoning
Sorry but I can’t buy that at all, frankly changing from Rudd to Gillard is like putting a reconditioned engine into an old rust-bucket, you can do it but the car won’t last long anyway and you would be better off getting a new car.
Mate I am having a great time with Labor in power, its so much easier to take the piss out of an incumbent government than to defend one.
Brian
The purpose of military aircraft is either gather data with surveillance or to deliver death to our enemies, Drones can do both without putting any of your personnel in harms way.Jet fighters may be useful for taking out major infrastructure, like bridges or command and control assets but even those can be effectively taken it with unnamed cruise missiles. and for the sort of wars that we are currently facing Apache helicopters are probably more useful than the JSF.
When it comes to Subs, well we don’t have A-bombs we want delivered, or saboteurs we want dropped off somewhere if we want to take out shipping then we can do it form the air, I just can’t see why we need them especially as they cost a bomb and have never been fully operational.
As I thought, Iain, you haven’t got a specific answer to the question of “how we are worse off under Labor”(*), only vague generalities and pot shots. Much like a footy supporter you’re just barracking for your team and shouting “boo” every time a Labor MP goes near the ball.
(* Okay, you mentioned going from surplus to debt but you failed to specify how that makes you or anyone else worse off. And just exactly what would you suggest a government do faced with a crisis like the GFC? Despite the mistakes and the hasty decisions, Rudd’s & Swan’s decisive action worked. And you’re better off because the govt spent the money.)
Ray you asked general questions and so I gave you general answers, that said I don’t think that Labor’s regime has been as bad as some doomsayers claim either but its hardly been a shining light either now has it? Any way this won’t be a “hip pocket election in my opinion it will be about the gravitas of the role of PM and how Gillard has all but made a mockery of her office.
To go to your favourite sporting analogy they may be wearing the right jerseys but they style of play has been woeful,with more missteps and own goals than you can poke a stick at. Face it any team that goes form dominating the field in 2007 to being only just able to field a team in 2010 can’t be playing well now can they. Frankly under Gillard the only goals scored have been of the “own” variety or what do you call them ? Behinds?
I asked you a specific question, Iain, not a “general” one. It was: “how exactly are you worse off post 2007? How exactly is anyone worse off …”, yet you failed to give one specific response. I take it that means you can’t think of how exactly you are worse off now compared to pre November 2007.
Anyway, I’m glad you concede “Labor’s regime (hasn’t) been as bad as some doomsayers claim …” and that this election will be more about “the gravitas of the role of PM and how Gillard has all but made a mockery of her office”. I agree … if Gillard is still there, that is. If she’s not, and if Rudd is PM, it’s a new ball game mate and your barracking might have to go up a notch, seeing Rudd is sure to make it a close contest. I think you know that.
Ok Ray time for me to be pedantic when you ask ““how exactly are you worse off post 2007?” it could be about my health which is worse but I can’t blame Labor for that , my finances are better because we no longer have a mortgage, but that is not down to Labor either, at my son’s school they have a nice new library but no more teachers… I call that a zero sum game
Finally I know that you put a lot of stock in Brother Number One but how will changing the head make the Labor zombie more alive to the voters? It won’t.
Ray, the long list of Labor’s failed initiatives and flawed policies is growing daily. There is no denying that. Is Gillard solely responsible for this?
Rudd was the PM who dismantled Howard’s successful refugee program.
As former Labor minister, Gary Johns, recently wrote:
Rudd also instituted the ‘Fair Work Australia’ bureaucracy which has since followed union guidelines to a tee. It’s a pity that unions represent less than 15% of the population. So much for Rudd’s ‘Howard Lite’.
Rudd may have made the right decision during the GFC to give hand-outs to those on lower incomes to stimulate the economy. According to most sources he went too far with the second raft of hand-outs. Using the GFC for an excuse for Labor’s continued flagrant spending is a lazy argument.
Labor’s profligate spending on useless green schemes, on foreign aid, on pandering to the UN, all on borrowed money, to the tune of a $100 million a day, is hardly driving the economy. Rather it is leaving a debt which has to be repaid by future generations. And all for nothing. No infrastructure, an unfunded disability insurance scheme, an unfunded national broadband network and the highest deficit in history.
All for nothing.
Remember, Rudd started this.
But it’s not all about Rudd, it’s about the Labor Caucus. Most of them have publicly stated they can’t work with him.
It’s hard to find a compelling reason to bring Rudd back.
It’s even harder to find a reason not to change governments.
John Howard? Wanted for War Crimes. Bring it on. No excuses,
So basically, Iain, you are not personally worse off as a result of having a Labor government. That’s what I thought.
GD, they are not facts they are just your opinions. If Rudd were a Liberal PM and he’d done all that, you’d be praising him up. You’re just part of the cheer squad for the coalition, GD. You’re ‘Joffa’.
Ray its never been about my personal well-being under Labor, I have never argued on that basis here and I don’t intend to in the future. But I look at the way they have conducted themselves and I am utterly incredulous that any political party could be so lacking in “street smarts” in the way that they have played the game and how many times they have promised one thing only to fall short in their delivery.
Any way how about I ask you if you were any worse off under Howard?
Also are you any better off under Labor?
Jeff Kennett in the Hun:
Well the full question was, Iain, “how are you or anyone else worse off ?”, and that’s what neither you or GD have answered. That’s because, overall, Australians are not worse off since 2007 and in fact have been advantaged enormously as a result of the swift actions taken to avoid the worst impacts of the GFC. You can point to the faiings all you like – all govts have failings – but the bottom line is that Australia remains a well governed country and is in sound financial shape.
And as someone in my own business, I was certainly worse off when Howard introduced the GST. It is basically a tax on our business, not on consumers.
Ray
We are all diminished by government incompetence and maladministration and that makes us all worse off in the long run as the debt pigeons come home to roost, as businesses go broke trying to pay undeserved penalty rates, as our government spends billions on school halls (rather than teachers) as they spend billions on a Rolls Royce NBN when a Ford would do the job, and because of this we have a Labor government doing things like putting the squeeze on single parents, putting the squeeze on health funding, reducing spending on infrastructure, the list is endless Ray.
Surely you are being less than frank about the GST which is added onto the invoices you give your patrons rather than just coming out of your pocket.
Iain, that’s just what governments do.
And I won’t go into a long explanation of how the GST actually works but even in its legislation it states that it is a levy on business, not on consumers. Sure, businesses factor in GST when working out their prices but that’s like factoring in electricity, and other running costs – you can’t pass it all on. The GST is, in effect, a cost to business, and a huge one.
You’re talking like we are the United States, Iain, with a multi-billion dollar defence budget. The ADF cannot afford all of those things. Drones are expensive and require hi-tech equipment, highly trained personnel and the support of a wide-ranging satellite network. Cruise missiles are also inordinately expensive; Tomahawks, I believe are in the region of $2 million each. And you can’t claim we don’t need jets and then claim subs are redundant because enemy shipping can be taken out from the air. We’re an island nation and our first line of defence is the Navy, and submarines are an important requirement. We just need to find some that work!
Do I take it from that that you want to bring back Workchoices, Iain? Don’t you think that people who work nights, weekends and public holidays are entitled to penalty rates?
Interesting to read Jeff Kennett above, suggesting that Gillard “go with grace”. He’s a fine one to talk, he got booted out of office by the electorate and went kicking and screaming.
Ray
the GST is an itemised part of every invoice that is passed on directly to the customer, the only unrecoverable impost on business is the time it takes to prepare your BAS.
Brian
The thing about drones their in theatre endurance and the way that they do not put their operators in harms way. That said their operators do not actually need the same sort of extensive training that a combat pilot needs several reports have suggested that. As for the cost of the machines themselves well its many orders of magnitude less per unit than it costs for manned aircraft to do the same things further its may understanding that they do not use a dedicated satellite network either.
You say that submarines are an essential part of our defence as an Island nation but you don’t seem to be able to say how or why they are so essential.
I said they’re important, I didn’t say they’re essential. At the end of the day they may not be. It’s up to military strategists to decide the best mix of resources to defend Australia. I’m not a military strategist and I doubt that you are either. I very much doubt that your perception of submarines existing to launch missiles and drop off special forces is really all they are important for, otherwise the US, UK and China would have stopped building submarines long ago. I’m sure they have a role to play, particularly in a nation like Australia where the only avenue for invasion is by the coast.
The US drone system relies heavily on satellite imagery of targets. We don’t have those resources, so we’d need to send in the SAS for that information, which DOES put people in harm’s way. In any event, I’m not sure when and where the ADF would actually need to deploy drones in the first place, since we don’t actually fight anywhere without the Americans.
Brian
Drones do not rely heavily on satellite imagery at all what the rely on satellite for are determining their position (via GPS)and the transmission of real time telemetry and sighting information back to the operators
As I implied earlier Brian the US UK and China have submarines as mobile launch platforms for their nuke missiles or for the destruction of enemy shipping and capital military assets with torpedoes. There is no other possible purpose for such machines.
As for us getting drones of our own there has been a fair bit talk about us getting some for border surveillance which seems very sensible to me.
Iain, it doesn’t work like that in most industries, in fact it’s a legal requirement that all prices are quoted inclusive of GST. I realise that some places (especially tradesmen & trade suppliers) are showing it as an ‘add-on’ but that’s actually not legal. As I said, I don’t want to go into a long explanation of how many businesses have had to absorb at least part of the GST impost in order to remain competitive but it happened and still happens. We were in the restaurant business when it came in and while we initially put our prices up by about 10% to cover the cost, doing so resulted in less trade and so eventually it inhibited us from raising prices down the track when we should have due to other cost increases. In other words, we had to absorb much of the tax. Same goes for the accommodation industry. Please mate, I know what I’m talking about because I’ve experienced it.
Iain, drones rely heavily on satellite control, both on an expansive satellite network and a dedicated vehicle providing uplink to the network. The further away the target, the more important this becomes. It is not just a case of “using GPS” and transmitting nice pictures of things blowing up back to base.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/predator6.htm
Australia simply does not have the satellites or the budget to deploy those kinds of resources. Our use of drones is limited to radio controlled vehicles for recon. In any event, I ask again when and where we would need to put drones into action. If Australia was ever invaded then I suspect it would be in such numbers that deploying drones would be like sending bees into battle against bullocks.
The “destruction of enemy shipping and military assets with torpedoes” sounds like a pretty good use for them to me. Especially since any attack on Australia is going to involve “enemy shipping”.
Brian
We also would no be seeking to operate any drones in distant theatres 0f operating as the USA does, further as I pointed out for the same amount of hitting power manned aircraft are a great deal more expensive.
As for submarines we have what six of them and only about two that are ever operational at any one time which means that they are near to useless when you consider how big our coastline is.
Ray I think we need to agree to disagree about the GST, Fair enough?
Yes. As I said, I don’t want to go into a detailed account of how it’s a turnover tax on business, not a consumption tax per se, but that’s what it is. Only those in business who have experienced it since inception understand this.
That remains to be seen. Drones can only deliver small payloads, which makes the ideal for hits on individual targets, small groups or camps. For sheer firepower they can’t compete with fighters and bombers.
Well that’s an operational problem, not a strategic problem. Just because you can’t get something to work properly doesn’t mean it has no role to play. Such a shame too because the old Oberon class subs we used to have were the best in the world. Most experts even put them ahead of the US’s non-nuclear subs.
Re: GST, as someone who also has to deal with this, I tend to agree with Ray. It might boil down to semantics but from my perspective the cost of GST is soaked up by business owners as they price their commodities or services. You are always mindful of this. Fortunately most of my revenue will soon come from abroad so I won’t have to worry about it too much.
Ray, I was addressing your earlier comment
You said:
Ray, one of those opinions is also that of former Labor minister Gary Johns. Those opinions are also reflected in the letters section of both News Ltd and Fairfax newspapers. So how are your comments anything but ‘opinions’?
As for not answering your “how are you or anyone else worse off ?” question, well given your short attention span, I was leaving that to another comment.
But I’ll trust that you’re wide awake and have left your political blinkers on the bedside table, rather than bringing them to the computer as you usually do.
The question “how are you or anyone else worse off under a Labor government?” is a red herring, an obfuscation.
Your example of the introduction of the GST is a pathetic attempt to show equivalence. Some small businesses may have felt disadvantaged. That may be the case, I don’t have hands on experience with the restaurant industry.
However, I make the point that, if you are at the end of the supplier chain, ie, you sell to customers, I agree with you. The natural reaction is to absorb rather than pass on the cost of the GST.
If however you are further up the supply chain, the GST is automatically passed on. Small businesses such as mine are able to offset the GST paid on all materials and supplies against the collected GST.
Contrast this to the pre-GST days, when sales tax, usually about 22% was levied on every purchase of business supplies. In my case, print and publishing tools along with electronic goods attracted this impost. The annual tax return was the only way to claim against these taxes.
The introduction of the GST, with its quarterly BAS, although that took some getting used to, was a breath of fresh air. Prices of supplies dropped, while the GST component was reimbursed where applicable.
To return to your restaurant example, I am also at the end of the supplier chain on occasion, and yes, in that situation, I absorb the GST.
For example, Mrs Smith’s daughter Flossy wants a backing track mp3 or sheet music for an audtion. They can’t get it on the net or at Allans Music stores, or perhaps they want a different version or a different key.
I realise their need is important to them, but at the same level of importance as, say, Flossy’s singing lessons. There is a limit to how much they will pay. Of course I factor in the GST and decide if I can make a buck out of it or not.
When commissioned by a government department, a private school or even a professional musician or bandleader, I know that they are passing the GST on, so I don’t have to absorb the GST.
As a muso, I’m also in the supply chain. For example, Rooty Hill RSL contracts a theatrical agent to provide entertainment. The agent books acts and artists to provide cabaret shows. Some of those acts employ bands, they hire a booker or bandleader, who hires individual musos. All along the chain Tax Invoices are the norm and the law.
Both sub-total and GST component are shown on all invoices.
Unlike the Carbon Tax, it is not illegal to show the GST component of an invoice, in fact it is a requirement.
Here’s a punter’s receipt/tax invoice. In this case the punter is Wayne Swan, the world’s best treasurer 🙂 It clearly shows the GST component.
No it wasn’t, GD – it was a direct answer to Iain’s question “how were you worse off under Howard”. I cited the obvious and very real impost of GST on my business as a key example. As I said though, I didn’t want to go into a long diatribe to prove my point that GST is and was a tax on turnover and for many businesses dealing directly with consumers such as mine, we were forced (by market forces) to absorb a large part of it, if not all of it. But I see you’ve gone to the trouble of explaining how that works and I thank you for proving my point.
As for the Woolies receipt, I don’t get your point. There’s only 54 cents GST in that total and it’s not an add-on anyway – it’s clearly included in the prices displayed on the shelf. It proves nothing.
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