Iain Hall's SANDPIT

Home » Australian Politics » David Hicks should quit while he is ahead, or we should never forget what he was trained to do

David Hicks should quit while he is ahead, or we should never forget what he was trained to do

Ah David Hicks has been in the news again. This time its all about appealing his conviction on the basis of a recent ruling about the law under which he was tried  having been applied retrospectively. Well I can understand, from a legal perspective, how that might work. However in terms of moral culpability it changes nothing Hicks admitted taking part in the Jihad game and both endorsing and physically supporting the “great man” Osama. in the letters he wrote home to his father. To my mind this makes him complicit in all of the atrocities committed by Al Qeada right up until he was captured in Afghanistan. To hear terry Hicks on the radio talking about “clearing the name” of his son was beyond obscene. The name of David Hicks will never be truly clean for as long as he draws breath even if moves in the US courts do manage to quash his conviction, that won’t make him an “innocent” man all it will do is make him a guilty man who has been able to evade justice through a technicality.

Annoyed about this Comrades

Advertisements

32 Comments

  1. Richard Ryan says:

    David Hicks is the modern day Ned Kelly—-will become a legend in his own life time. A big movie is on its way, based on his life. Just get over it Iain. When you are dead and long gone, David Hicks will still be spoken of, for better or for worse, Australian army knocked him back, big mistake, would have been taken on by the American military for sure—–provided he was good at pissing straight. Shalom, Richard Ryan.

  2. Richard Ryan says:

    Howard should hang his head in shame, in respect to David Hicks, as he danced to the beat of Bush’s war tom-toms.

  3. kman says:

    David Hicks..”Speaking in a tight voice, he told the audience at the Sydney Theatre Company yesterday that he had been painted by the media as a “monster out to cause harm”, but he had never hurt anyone or planned to commit acts of terror.”I went overseas with the intention to help people, to do something,” Hicks said.

    “Some people . . . think it was a bit weird, a bit strange, impulsive, naive, OK, but my intentions were good and, unfortunately, I ended up being detained and tortured and accused of being a terrorist.”

    Hicks and his father, Terry, who was in the audience, received a standing ovation. After the event, dozens of people clutching copies of the Green Left Weekly and Hicks’s book, lined up to have their copies signed by the author.”…http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/wikileaks/assange-could-share-my-fate-says-hicks/story-fn775xjq-1226060683664

    David Hicks admitted training with Islamist terrorist group Lashkar-e-Toiba and at a camp in Afghanistan. This where the US later closed down 15 al Quida terrorist training camps where all the 9/11 and London bombers were trained -and Hicks say’s he never heard of al Quida? What rubbish! After 9/11 everyone on the planet heard of al Quida and nobody would have celebrated 9/11 more enthusiastically than the Taliban.

    So what exactly was this now innocent Hicks fighting for?

    Hicks admitted advocating the implementation of strict Islamic law while celebrating beheadings in poetry. Hicks fought with the Muslim Kosovo Liberation Army and later with the Taliban. Hicks was fighting to preserve a society where a woman can have her fingers amputated as a punishment for wearing nail polish, and a man can be beaten senseless and imprisoned for shaving. Where listening to any kind of music, singing, or even flying a kite is forbidden. And where the mere possession of literature deemed objectionable by the government is an offence punishable by death. The Taliban burned whole families alive in their own homes and tortured and killed children for even trivial things. Massacres of entire villages were common and public executions were held where the public was encouraged to cheer as the victims’ bodies were hauled around the streets on cranes.

    Five times every day, every person is required to attend prayers in a mosque. And this is the “pure Islamic state” that the Taliban and leftist “poster boy” David Hicks sought to spread throughout the Middle East, Australia and the rest of the world. Now Hicks and his supporters especially leftist “hate America ” groups like the Sydney Writers group,The Green Left, the ABC, academics and the so called “Peace” movements have made Hicks their poster boy. And yes, the “Naked Eye” columnists at Fairfax’s Sun-Herald wanted to make him Australian of the year. And now this denier of freedom and justice for others gets standing ovations at The Sydney Writers festival.
    Hicks deserved every minute he served in Guantanamo,in fact he should still be there.

    Well Richard Ryan, why am I not surprised that you blame John Howard and admire and support this admitted traitor and enemy of the west?

    are one sick puppy to support Hicks.

  4. deknarf says:

    Hicks is certainly morally culpable as you say. So also is Howard’s Coalition government in involving us in Iraq and also allowing Hicks to be incarcerated in what could only be described as a concentration camp and questioned using dubious methods, by a nation that espouses freedom and equality.

  5. GD says:

    Well said, Iain and kman. The left’s stance on this is sickening.

  6. Brian says:

    I have mixed views on the subject. I think in times of war (and often in times of peace) the US essentially writes its own rules with regard to the terms of engagement, legal and moral culpability. But I have no sympathy for David Hicks. I don’t find him “evil” or malevolent, just profoundly stupid. There is nothing I heard seen, heard or read from him that convinces me otherwise. Whether he is legally cleared or not does not interest me, he will still be a fool.

  7. Brian says:

    For once I am with “GD”. The constant fawning over Hicks by some of the intelligentsia in this country is very worrying. I can understand them rallying to the cause of unfair detention, but not celebrating Hicks personally. From what I can see there is nothing to celebrate, other than a dim witted bogan who took up with a band of cut throats.

  8. GD says:

    Yet the left seeks to glorify him as a freedom fighter, when in fact he was fighting against western society.

  9. Craig says:

    Perhaps the green left weekly folk get a hard on thinking about the 4th generation warfare Hicks participated in, the eco terrorists among them maybe become, inspired?

  10. Brian says:

    From what I’ve read about Hicks, he was so stupid and inept that not even al Qaeda was willing to deploy him in battle. He was as much of a disappointment to them as he was a traitor to us.

    I’m not sure that Hicks’ fans here hail him as a “freedom fighter”, more as a naive young fella who was abandoned/sold to the US by Howard. Well bugger him I say, he deserved what he got. He’s free now and he should be grateful for that, without stringing out his victimhood.

  11. Ray Dixon says:

    He’s certainly not a “hero” but he’s also not exactly the devil incarnate that you and the KKKman paint him, Iain.

    He was just a juvenile fool who ran off to play toy soldier in the desert but got caught up in the aftermath of 9/11. He’s paid a pretty high price for that and begrudging him the right to attempt to have his conviction quashed is an over-reaction and highly judgemental.

    You do realise that it’s more the constant demonising of him by hardliners from the right that keeps him in the spotlight and sets him up as some kind of anti-hero to the more radical types out there, don’t you? Maybe it’s those people (and you) who need to let go of the deep-seated hatred for this dupe?

  12. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    as the minions of the far left try to down play what he has done or sought to do I think that its important fo the more sensible among us to point out why they are in error. Sadly they don’t seem to want to let Hicks just live a quiet and inconsequential life they want to make him into a cypher for use against the “evil USA” frankly if they had a more virtuous cypher they might be in with a chance. But Hicks is no Ned Kelly with a cause that could be argued as worthy. He fought , not once but several times on the side of militant Islam and that is unforgivable. That we are prepared to tolerate him living freely amongst us says a great deal about the virtues of our society, that Hicks and his enablers want to worry at the puss filled sore of his own history says absolutely nothing good about the self righteous minions of the left.

  13. Ray Dixon says:

    (*Sigh*) Iain, the so-called “minions of the left” would have no platform or pedestal to put Hicks on if it were not for the so-called ‘wingnuts of the right’ making a bloody big song and dance about it every time Hicks’ name comes up. Don’t you see that it’s your type of attack on him that causes an opposite and equal reaction on the other side? You’ve gone with the first shot on him here on this blog and that is a microcosm of what is happening in the wider blogosphere and beyond. In short, Iain, if you’re going to Hicks-bash expect a response. Maybe that’s what you want mate? After all, it makes for lively discussion. Look, you’ve even got me talking about him, which sort of proves my point. Leave the boy alone and he’ll soon fade away into a distant memory, Iain.

    As for “That we are prepared to tolerate him living freely amongst us says a great deal about the virtues of our society”, what would it say about us if we didn’t tolerate him living freely amongst us after he’s done his time?

  14. Richard Ryan says:

    Hicks was not arrested in a public toilet in London, unlike the four million dollar cash-for-comment wanker.

  15. Iain Hall says:

    Ray it was not those like me from the right that has turned the spot light back upon Hicks it has been his fans from the left and they are cheered on by nut jobs like Richard Ryan who have unmentionable stains upon their pants at the thought of western civilization being toppled by Islamist zealots, yet it is he and his ilk that would promptly have their throats cut by those who kill in the name of Allah.

    Its the madness of lawyerism if you ask me, and the sooner we get away from the leaglistic arguments and look at what is just instead then the sooner we will have a rational society.

  16. Ray Dixon says:

    Case in point, Iain – if you hadn’t got all worked up about it and blasted out another anti-Hicks post, we wouldn’t even be discussing him. Look to the origins of the argument.

  17. damage says:

    Mmmmm. Don’t tell Iain what he has to “discuss” on his own blog please.
    Sage advice I got this afternoon in another place. From – as it turned out – a complete hypicrite who was attempting to intimidate me by claiming to know where I live.

  18. Ray Dixon says:

    I’m not telling Iain what to “discuss” – I’m merely pointing out that he started the Hicks discussion here so he can hardly point the finger at others for responding. I know you have problems with the truth and that you go around accusing everyone else falsely but I’ve no wish to continue any dialogue with you – as I pointed out at my blog, from which you are now permanently ‘blacklisted’ (and you’re the first person I’ve ever had to do that to in over 7 years of blogging, proud?). I sort of guessed you’d drag your obsession over here though.

  19. Craig says:

    I think it’s more a game set up to play how it is, every time this comes up in the media. The comment Howard made years ago about Hick’s being, “A naive wayward man.”, or something to that effect has a purpose. The left scream and shout Hick’s innocence, while the right pull up Hick’s traitorous past actions and previous radical ideologies. Then the middle go, “Oh he was a naive wayward man.”. So how’s that Hicks is no longer an ideological fundamentalist Muslim with terrorist tendencies and is allowed to live among us, as a secular Muslim.

    It seems more a repeated meme put out there as a claim of ideological victory, of the globalist secular neo liberalism ideology, over that of tribalist Muslim men, particularly the Taliban. In reality though the anthropological dissolving solvent of psych war used to dissolve the cultural glue of the Taliban and Afghans tribal culture, most commonly known as “Winning the hearts and minds.”, is an utter failure of neo colonialism. The last ten years prove that.

    Lest we forget.

  20. Brian says:

    “Anthropological dissolving solvent”? Sounds like you’ve swallowed a dictionary and are shitting nouns, Craig.

    There is no psychobabble needed to explain Hicks. He was a young drifter living a pointless life in SA and was taken in by Islam. Like most religions it falsely offers inclusivity and an explanation of the mysteries of life. Like a thousand others before him, back to Hitler and beyond, he was so annoyed with his own failures that he blamed the society that raised him. And he joined the raghead brigade in its war against civilisation. And he lost, got caught, got banged up and detained indefinitely, illegally according to the letter of the law but quite justifiably by any other measure.

    The measure of this conflict is that there are very few David Hicks and John Walker Lindhs. Westerners aren’t drawn to radical Islam like they have been to Nazism, fascism, communism, etc. Any westerner with a brain knows that Islam is nothing more than a lasting stronghold of medieval superstition and grovelling in the sand. It’s for that reason, amongst others, that Islam will never win the clash of civilisations.

    BTW, you are wrong about Hicks living as “a secular Muslim”. He renounced Islam some time ago and claims to no longer be interested in it. Not that this is of any great significance.

  21. Craig says:

    Thanks for the correction on Muhammed Dawood or should I say David Hicks denouement of Islam. I really do not care for him, or his story that much. Now that I’ve read it, IMO it’s not as simple as believing in a religion. David would of bought into the culture of Islamic society and the differing cultures/ethnicities that also practised it. David more likely appreciated and found comfort in the traditional conservative, cultural mores of Islam, rather then the religions rituals or fundamentalism itself. David obviously felt the different national cultures of Islam that he fought for, deserved to be preserved and protected. Rather then dissolved into the global cultural Marxism of today’s faux westernism.

    Brian, such attitude and arrogance as yours is leading to the down fall of the crumbling cultural remains of the Bonobo masturbation society previously known as the West, though there are a few rather masculine patriarchs left that practice the old west, they are a mix of young and old thankfully.

    I’m pretty sure the anthropologists working in the field in Afghanistan and back at DOD in the good old US of A, would disagree with you, when it comes to the unsuccessful attempt of breaking down the tribal culture of the Afghanis. It’s been used in war as a science for geo political goals for over a century now, I’ll bet used over the millennia, but not as an exact discipline of science as such back then. Cultural solvents and cultural glues are terminologies used in this field of knowledge.

    We no longer fight for our countries alone, or for democracy, nor as in the ideologies of WW2 such as national socialism, fascism, communism, rather for the corporations and governments that require trade routes to remain open, for multi regional global economic growth. Of course under the guise of bringing democracy and neo liberalism to the Middle East and North Africa of course.

    David Hicks IMO is held up as a distraction for the sheeple, as a show of strength of liberal democracy.

    In other words it’s just propaganda.

  22. damage says:

    Boo hoo Ray girl.

  23. Brian says:

    That comment is 90 percent bullshit, Craig. All the babble about psy ops and anthropology, when it sounds to me like you’re hankering for a visit and maybe a relocation to Afghanistan yourself. At least men are men there; they fire guns and keep women in their place. Better than the “Bonobo masturbation society” we’ve got here. Might be time to start packing your bags.

    The reason I think western civilisation has little to fear from Islam is because I don’t hold western society in utter contempt, as you seem to do. It’s certainly not in danger from drop-outs and losers like D. Hicks.

  24. Simon says:

    What I find ironic about David Hicks is that while it was probably unpleasant being hosted by the US Government I’m sure he was treatment more humanly than what would have happened to someone caught by the paramilitary organisations he was a part of for the better part of a decade. Especially seeing as there seems to have been organ-harvesting from Serbian prisoners by the KLA.

  25. Craig says:

    Ahh Brian you’re right mate, men do fight with guns there and much, much more, see it’s young ex-service men like I and my still serving brothers that actually fight in the sand pit and die there. Have you ever consoled a fallen brothers mother and father? I have it’s not much fun, particularly when the mother says, “Well my son died for a good and honourable purpose, in 20 years time I’ll be proud to walk in Afghanistan to see where he died, to know he made a difference.”.

    When deep down I know that’s not the truth, and yet can not tell her nor bear to, so even I when confronted with that, stick to the current political myth. Everyone has to believe in something Brian.

    The reason I’ve contempt for the Bonobo masturbation society of the neo western civilisation, is that it’s soft and sheltered, just like your arrogance Brian.

    Your right twice Brian, Bonobo society has nothing to fear from the likes of D. Hicks. On the other hand his old or ex mates back in the sand pit, Bonobo society and the powers that be certainly do fear them.

  26. Richard Ryan says:

    Unlike Hicks who did not dance in tune to Howard’s war tom-toms in support of Bush, I would like to see Howard charged for war crimes, for his illegal invasion of Iraq, along with Dolly Downer. America the Bankrupt Empire—-Empires don’t last for ever. Shalom, Comrades of the right.

  27. kman says:

    Leave the boy alone and he’ll soon fade away into a distant memory, Iain.”

    But that’s Ian’s point exactly.Hicks has been left alone and that’s the way us wing nuts want it – however he keeps raising his little traitorous head and wants to sue the government.And then again there are the movie,book launches,plays, public speakings re his “total innocence” and that it was always one big lie perpetrated by Australia and the U.S. Governments.So I would say we have every right to discuss and show our disgust re how you leftists pay homage to him. Hell I bet Ray you must have been absolutely crushed when Osama got his.

    Ian love the “they are cheered on by nut jobs like Richard Ryan who have unmentionable stains upon their pants at the thought of western civilization being toppled by Islamic zealots, yet it is he and his ilk that would promptly have their throats cut by those who kill in the name of Allah.”
    However the left will never see it that way,that’s what is happening in Australia today. The Hicks and the Assanges are the new heroes, anti western,anti Israeli,anti American – Pro sending our country down the toilet of third world multiculturalism and turning our common Australian identity in to a witches brew of nothingness.

    An explanation for those readers who are not aquited with the term “Wingnuts” as used by the left as a term of derision.Note also the childish reference to me as KKKman from Ray Dixon.

    Wingnuts such a myself believe that western civilisation/western culture with the use of rational argument favouring free thought, has been the greatest thing to ever happen to the human race. We believe in democracy,
    derived from political thought and rational argument ..We believe in free and open markets. We believe in controlled immigration for those who will assimilate and adopt our Australian way of life and who will respect and obey our legal system.We do not admire and support those who would undermine our nations security or take up arms against us.Thats what we Wingnuts believe.

    On the other hand the “leftists”the Ray Dixons and Richard Ryans are opposed to all this. They also wish to stifle any debate as seen by Ian being banned from a blog.) that does not agree with their rainbow / all cultures are equal, politically correct anti western world. The left’s favourite countries are all repressive and socialist – Cuba is a real favourite and Castro is their hero.

    The left welcomes any and all who can come to Australia and the Greens actually want to allow them immediately entry in to our communities without even security checks.This despite the govrnment spending millions to combat young Muslims from being radicalised.
    The left hates western culture and approves of all third world cultures especially the Islamic culture.So while the western world invents everything from the drugs which will save your life to moon landings and exploring outer space, Islam’s adherents pray 5 times a day, and then spend the rest of the time with beheadings, building bombs,rioting, and / or planning to kill their wife or children because they may have looked at a man or kill those who may or may not have offended their god.

    He’s certainly not a “hero” but he’s also not exactly the devil incarnate that you and the KKKman paint him, Iain”
    I would say that anyone who would willingly supports and trains with the Taliban which has to be the most inhumane group that has ever existed on this planet, and who would make war to bring the Taliban to their own country Australia, definitely fits this description.

    And Richard Ryan says it all right here – Al Qa’ida,and Hicks is not the enemy. It’s all Howard and the “Bankrupt Empire America” who are the real enemies of the world….”Empires don’t last for ever”
    No they don’t,and one reason they don’t is because they are as Cicero said… “A nation can survive its fools and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within…”

  28. Brian says:

    Have you ever consoled a fallen brothers mother and father? I have it’s not much fun, particularly when the mother says, “Well my son died for a good and honourable purpose, in 20 years time I’ll be proud to walk in Afghanistan to see where he died, to know he made a difference.”.

    You and I both know that the only people walking in Afghanistan 20 years from now, Craig, will be the same gun-toting woman-hating Taliban thugs that ran the joint 20 years ago. The Afghanistan campaign is a lost cause. Every example from history tells us that Afghanistan can’t be transformed. Every neutral and independent view (i.e. not the politicians or their flag rank lackies in the military) says the Afghani government and military cannot stand alone and probably never will. The “mission” in Afghanistan will collapse as soon as we withdraw. That is not to denigrate the service and sacrifice of military personnel there. While they occupy Afghanistan its people, its region and I guess to some degree the rest of the world is safer. But I know, and you know, that as soon as they pull out, the place will go down the shithole faster than a leaden turd. They have made a difference but it won’t be a permanent one.

    Everyone has to believe in something Brian.

    Yes, and reality is usually the best option. Something lost on politicians who commit to long and ultimately unwinnable military campaigns.

    The reason I’ve contempt for the Bonobo masturbation society of the neo western civilisation, is that it’s soft and sheltered, just like your arrogance Brian.

    Well, as most of your political ilk are fond of saying to migrants, “if you don’t like it, leave”. From my perspective, Western civilisation is relatively safe from the medieval nutters in the Middle East and central Asia. Their backward ideas will never seriously transform our liberal secular societies. Their social structure does not allow education to any significant level so they can’t compete technologically. They are failed societies that offer their people no hope, promises or progress.

  29. Iain Hall says:

    Brian

    From my perspective, Western civilisation is relatively safe from the medieval nutters in the Middle East and central Asia. Their backward ideas will never seriously transform our liberal secular societies.

    That is a nice thought but not one that is borne out by the experience in some European countries that have welcomed Muslim immigrants in large numbers, especially when there is a “multicultural” mindset that endorses separatism from the host countries mainstream. (thinking of France and the Netherlands here )

    Their social structure does not allow education to any significant level so they can’t compete technologically. They are failed societies that offer their people no hope, promises or progress.

    Ah but I think that a great deal of that can be slated down to the focus upon the next world and the rituals of religious observance in Islam.

  30. Brian says:

    That is a nice thought but not one that is borne out by the experience in some European countries that have welcomed Muslim immigrants in large numbers, especially when there is a “multicultural” mindset that endorses separatism from the host countries mainstream.

    I am always wary when Muslim-haters shout “look at Europe!” I haven’t seen anything of any validity or trustworthiness that suggests Muslims are taking over France or Holland. It is certainly true that Muslim immigrants are over-represented in crime statistics in those two countries. Whether that is down to their religion, or the fact they arrive with no education and no prospects and therefore slip into the cycle of welfare reliance and crime, is another question.

    I think that a great deal of that can be slated down to the focus upon the next world and the rituals of religious observance in Islam.

    That has nothing to do with it. The Islamic world during the Middle Ages was more technologically and medically advanced than the Christian world. And some of the greatest (Western) scientists, e.g. Newton, were full on God botherers. The reason Muslims in the Middle East and Asia are so intellectually bankrupt is because they have no infrastructure or culture that supports secular education and research. And in the absence of that, they turn to the Koran and get bogged down in the medieval claptrap that is Islam.

  31. damage says:

    Craig. You’re ex-service like I’m ex-bolshoi. Nothing worse than a fake ex soldier. Real people, in real boots, spill their real blood and you pretend to understand because you pretend to be their “brother”?

  32. Craig says:

    Well Brian get back to me when you understand the consequences of power moving from West to East and what effect that has on the average masses out there not prepared for it. As it won’t just be monetary economics that starts flowing to the East it will be the gas and oil to. I’m not the typical righty, I welcome the multi-polar world, as I understand cyclic changes and the unintended consequences will not pan out how the left nor right envision. Unpredictable chaos will bring more then what the current intelligentsia and powers that be are bargaining for, with that comes opportunity.

    I’m not worried about the so called Muslim and yellow hordes either, the natural order of the world has a general way of sorting it out.

    @ Damage, You’re so right the fake ex soldier is the worse of the worse, and if they show their faces at the RSL ect.. we sort them out, they’re few and far between. So have a teaspoon of concrete, and harden the F*ck up, you little twirling ballerina.

Comments are closed.

Welcome to the Sandpit

I love a good argument so please leave a comment

Please support the Sandpit

Please support the Sandpit

Do you feel lucky?

Do you feel lucky?

%d bloggers like this: