Iain Hall's SANDPIT

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Pat is right “A word to rioting Muslims “!

Sadly Pat is on the money here

Cheers Comrades

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97 Comments

  1. Richard Ryan says:

    That guy won’t be around on this planet much longer!

  2. Iain Hall says:

    And you think that would be a good thing I suppose Richard, I’m amazed at the way that you are so keen to attack the USA yet you seem so sanguine about the potential of the spread the evils of Muslim fundamentalism. Talk about fucked up priorities!

  3. Richard Ryan says:

    Christian Mantra! ” Love thy neighbor as thy self” snigger-snigger. Shalom.

  4. Damian says:

    Yesterday 30 thousand people in Benghazi, Libya, marched to protest against extremist, armed Islamist factions like the one that killed US Ambassador Stevens earlier this month. Condell believes that a rioting minority represents a religion of 1.6 billion faithful worldwide. Has he ever mentioned those Muslims who courageously oppose extremism and violence?

  5. Richard Ryan says:

    Condell?, speaking of “fucked up priorities”.

  6. Iain Hall says:

    Yes he has as it happens Damian but he does not rate them very highly because they are dwarfed by the number of nutters in the so called “religion of peace” and by the totalitarian ideology of the faith.

  7. Damian says:

    Well in the case of Libya 30,000 is greater than a few hundred. We could talk about the tens of thousands in different Yemeni cities who regularly speak out – with their feet, bravely – against Al Qaeda. We could go on – indeed, we could have an actual conversation about it. But your faith in Condell and his hatred means discussion is the last thing on your mind.

  8. GD says:

    Yes, Damian, you could have a conversation about these positive signs that Islam is becoming reasonable rather than filled with hate for the West, but that would be a lie.

    Islam is a cancer that is destroying the body of humanity across the world. There is no country that Islamic ideology and culture has benefited. There is no country where Islamic ideology and culture has enabled Muslims to integrate successfully. There is not one country which has accepted Muslims as immigrants or refugees that has not had massive problems with the ideology of Islam.

    Islam is a medieval, warlike, primitive tribal religion.

    Islamic countries in the Middle East are a mess. Their citizens rush to emigrate to successful, viable nations such as those in the West.

    Unfortunately, as we’ve seen in Sydney, they fail to leave their hatred and grievances behind them and begin to replicate those same grievances here, even to the second and third generation.

    You talk about Pat Condell’s ‘hatred’. No, Pat doesn’t hate, he just wants these militant wackos to leave behind their supposed grievances and sense of entitlement and join the 21st Century.

    The West doesn’t owe Muslims a living, Muslims have to show they are worthy of such a life. So far they have made a botch of it.

  9. Iain Hall says:

    Very well put GD !
    Damain
    As much as I want to believe that “the majority” of Muslims just want a peaceful life the evidence clearly suggest that this is very far from the truth, why just over night we hear that riots in Pakistan have cost twenty lives and some government Minister has offered a $100K to the person who kills the maker of the “Innocence of Muslims’ Movie. You just have to face the fact that Islam is an ideology that is absolutely antithetical to any kind of modern secular society.

  10. Richard Ryan says:

    AS yes! The British Empire, founded on slavery, theft, and murder, not on Islam. What can I say? F##k The british empire.

  11. Damian says:

    “Islam is a cancer…”

    “Islam is a medieval, warlike, primitive tribal religion.”

    That’s “very well put” is it, Iain? The Sandpit shifted from a silly little outpost to full blown whacko site so slowly I didn’t notice it happen. Dr Ting Tong would be proud.

    I’ll leave you scholars of world religions to your back-patting, cowardly, ignorant group think session.

  12. Iain Hall says:

    Damian

    Why are you so keen to defend Islam? Even if you have befriended followers of that faith has that made you incapable of critical thinking about what the religion says in its scriptures and what is done in the name of Allah?

    When it comes to ” back-patting, cowardly, ignorant group think” you lefties have the lead by orders of magnitude over we conservatives. Mainly through your refusal to believe what the Islamists say that they want to do. Personally I take them at their word when they claim that they want to “behead all of those who insult Islam”. Our culture is successful because we have both freedom of thought and the freedom to offend with our public statements. If the followers of Islam can’t cope with that well then its time that they joined the present rather than expecting us all to retreat back into the middle ages.

  13. GD says:

    What the hell is ‘cowardly’ about my comment, Damian?

    I notice you failed to address any points in my comment, save for the two with ‘big bad words’. You can look the other way, pretend it isn’t happening, but Islam isn’t the benign force that you imagine it is.

    Iain asked, “Why are you so keen to defend Islam?” I have yet to hear one leftard answer that one.

    There is something wrong with a religion, ideology and culture that ‘celebrates’ a ‘Day of Love for the Prophet’ by destroying their own cities, their own country. Even the Pakistani newspaper article shown in the pic below calls it ‘insanity’.

    Yet the Australian government continues with massive Islamic immigration and refugee resettlement.

    That too is insanity.

  14. Richard Ryan says:

    1.5 BILLION MUSLIMS WORLDWIDE! It must be the carbon tax, that has pushed up the breeding here. snigger-snigger.

  15. I agree with Damian – this comment string isn’t a discussion, but a fearful rant from, most likely, white Anglos-Saxon men who probably have never sat down with an average Muslin person to have a chat about their views.

    Claiming ‘Muslim is bad’ (as the dangerous fool does in the video-clip) is as idiotic as saying ‘Christianity is good’ or ‘white people are nice’ or ‘black people like guns’ or ‘Asians smell bad’. It’s a baseless and ultimately very harmful generalisation.

    Iain, you write ‘As much as I want to believe that “the majority” of Muslims just want a peaceful life the evidence clearly suggest that this is very far from the truth’. Beyond what we see on evening TV broadcasts, where is the so-called evidence?

  16. Iain Hall says:

    The things that are published by the faithful mostly Nigel, as I said I take them at their word when they advocate for a world wide caliphate, or when they say that they would execute homosexuals an unbelievers. I take them at their word when they talk about the place of women in society and I take them at their word when they say that they are willing to kill in the name of their God.
    Now I have sat down and broken bread with individuals of the faith as it happens and they were generally as charming as anyone else that I have eaten with and I am sure that many individuals are great people until you question their faith or the values that are at its foundation.
    Just a simple question for you Nigel would you be open about your sexuality with the Muslims that you meet?

  17. Brian says:

    Nigel is right. I dislike the ideology of Islam as much as others here seem to. But to claim that Australia is directly threatened by Islam is a nonsense. The vast majority of Muslims just do what the rest of us do, go about the business of living, working and raising families.

    As for “GD’s” claim that Australia has “massive Islamic immigration”, that’s garbage. I’d ask him to justify it with some proof when he next drops in at 3am, but it’d be a waste of time. The bloke is an evidence-free zone.

  18. Nigel says:

    Iain, your response is peppered with ‘they’, inferring ‘all’. That is my point – these generalisations are meaningless and, worse, dangerous. There are Christians who believe that the Earth was made in 7 days and is only 4,000 years old – that doesn’t mean ALL Christians believe that. Indeed, in Peter Jensen, the Anglican Archbishop in Sydney, we have our own religious extremist: he believes that women should be subservient to men. But that doesn’t mean that ALL Christians believe this.

    Saying one religion is better than another is idiotic. It’s fundamentalism and extremism that is at fault here, no matter how it’s badged.

    As to ‘Just a simple question for you Nigel would you be open about your sexuality with the Muslims that you meet?’ Absolutely. And I’m sure it’d be a better conversation than one I’d have with Jim Wallance from the Australian Christian Lobby. Plus, dare I say it, the question you pose is no different to asking ‘Just a simple question for you Nigel would you be open about your habit of cooking a steak for dinner with the Buddhists that you meet?’ I mean really.

  19. Iain Hall says:

    Have you actually been open about your sexuality with Muslims Nigel?

  20. Nigel says:

    Iain, the question is absurd and you know it.

  21. Iain Hall says:

    Why do you think it absurd? Surely given the very hostile attitude of Islam towards homosexuality its entirely pertinent?

  22. Nigel says:

    It’s absurd because it assumes that all Muslims are extremists and that simply isn’t the case. In any religion there are those with an open mind, those who are moderate, and those who are extreme. The Muslim religion is no different.

  23. Iain Hall says:

    Nigel it makes no such assumption at all, infact I think that you will find that when it comes to harsh treatment of homosexuals the top ten countrioes in the world would all be Islamic republics of one sort or another. Even the ” moderate” muslims in western countrries are taught from their cradlle (well almost) to hate homosexuals The Koran presribe a penalty of death for being Gay so please don’t kid your self that Muslim who abhor homosexuality are a minority because the facts just don’t support that belief at all.
    Look I fully respect you wanting to be all inclusive about the various ethinic comunities that make up our nation but don’t kid your self that Islam is entirely benign in its nature.

  24. GD says:

    this comment string isn’t a discussion, but a fearful rant from, most likely, white Anglos-Saxon men who probably have never sat down with an average Muslin person to have a chat about their views.

    Come off the grass, Nigel. I live in Western Sydney in a suburb that has more immigrants and refugees than long term European residents. The mix is multicultural to the max: Muslims, Egyptians, Pakistanis, Africans, Asians and some Caucasian people.

    Yes, I live between Blacktown and Lakemba. Google the statistics you arm-chair leftie. It’s not as you say. My closest neighbour for the first five years here was a Pakistani. Please don’t tell me I’ve never talked to a Muslim about his views. After a rocky start, we built a reasonable relationship, over a number of years. I’d like to say that we went to the pub and had a beer but I can’t. It was against his religion.

    However, he did ask about prostitutes. Being single, I offered to show him a brothel. He jumped at the chance. He was like a pig in sh*t. So much for his religion. A few months later he went back to Pakistan and brought back his bride. She spoke no English. I asked how he was going to help her meet other women and learn English. He replied, ‘she doesn’t need to learn English. I can speak for her’. As for friends for her, you can only imagine.

    This young Pakistani woman was brought here under the pretext of marriage to a man in a free western country. Instead she was sold into slavery. She would have been better off in her homeland, with some females to converse with. Australia for her was a prison with a large plasma screen and Harvey Norman ads.

    Javid hated America with a passion. Any TV news item about the Middle East was greeted with anger directed at America. While Australian society can accommodate misogynist Muslim Javid, it shouldn’t have to accommodate thousands of Muslim Javids who hate western society and pass it on to their kids.

    The recent Muslim riots show that it is now generational. Add that to the hatred felt by imported Javids and we have a recipe for disaster. You are being foolish if you think otherwise.

  25. Brian says:

    Hold the phone. “GD’s” evidence for Muslim infiltration of Australian society… “I’ve got a Pakistani friend. He wouldn’t go to the pub with me, but he went to brothels. Plus his wife didn’t speak English.”

    Seriously, is this the best attempt at informed and rational comment you are capable of making? Not even a high school debater would resort to this kind of generalisation, making assumptions about an entire minority/ethnic group because “I live near them” and “I have this friend”.

    With regard to the more adult and intelligent commenters, i.e. Iain and Nigel, I think there is a clear dichotomy between Islam abroad and Islam in Australia. I agree with you Iain that most Islamic republics are intolerant, homophobic and repressive. A good number of them are failed states. Whether that’s entirely down to Islamic or is due to other factors (historical, cultural, division of wealth) is a matter for debate. At the very least I would agree that Islam prevents the political development and liberalisation of those societies.

  26. Nigel says:

    Iain, you only have to look at Irish history to see that Christianity isn’t exactly the ‘peace, love, and understanding’ of religions either. Plus the Bible isn’t exactly supportive of homosexuality. or women. Is it possible to line up all the world’s religions and make a rational decision about which ones are better than others? No, because, by their very nature, religions – all religions – are about faith and they’re about passion, and they’re about home.

    GD, you could be describing a typical white foul-mouthed beer-bellied bloke and his Asian bride.

    Brian (and thanks for the kind comments), re. ‘most Islamic republics are intolerant, homophobic and repressive. A good number of them are failed states. Whether that’s entirely down to Islamic or is due to other factors (historical, cultural, division of wealth) is a matter for debate. At the very least I would agree that Islam prevents the political development and liberalisation of those societies.’ Perhaps that’s why Muslims in these repression countries leave for a better life in places like Australia?

  27. Iain Hall says:

    Nigel

    Iain, you only have to look at Irish history to see that Christianity isn’t exactly the ‘peace, love, and understanding’ of religions either.

    Yep I have no trouble believing that is true Nigel, but there is a big difference between Christianity and Islam and that is the ability of the former to evolve with its society to embrace changing attitudes to things like sexuality, Islam on the other had insists that it is the final and perfect revelation of God so to even suggest reform on issues such as women or sexuality is akin to heresy or at least blasphemy.

    Plus the Bible isn’t exactly supportive of homosexuality. or women.

    Well the new testament says otherwise

    Is it possible to line up all the world’s religions and make a rational decision about which ones are better than others? No, because, by their very nature, religions – all religions – are about faith and they’re about passion, and they’re about home.

    Sorry but I don’t buy that sort of post modernist argument which suggests that all religions are of equal virtue. Some are clearly better than others in the respect that they accord to individuals, in how much supplication to the deity that they expect form the faithful, in the harmful practices that they require of their followers (“circumcision” of girls and boys anyone?)Heck the are even religions that murder children so that their body parts can be used in “magic”. Are you seriously going to argue that they are all “the same” no matter what they do or advocate?

  28. Brian says:

    Perhaps that’s why Muslims in these repression countries leave for a better life in places like Australia?

    Yes, exactly Nigel. I would suggest the majority of Muslims who emigrate to Australia, legally or otherwise, come here not to spread jihad and sharia law, but to enjoy a better way of life. And if that’s the case, more power to their arm. Once they get here, of course they should be free to practice whatever faith/religion they want, provided they abide by our laws and expectations.

  29. Brian says:

    Additional point. When weighing up the sins of religions and religious ideologies in Australia, I’m not sure how you can be so critical of Muslims (a rowdy protest, a couple of half-baked terrorist plots and some silly comments) and yet say little or nothing about the Catholic church and its wilful and systematic protection of child rapists. Is there are worse sin than the abuse of children? Strange that with all the critiques of religion here, that hardly seems to score a mention.

  30. Nigel says:

    Iain, if you can come up with a rational, logical way of assessing one religion against the other, then good luck to you! (Though I do worry that the same system of assessment might then be applied to races of people.)

    Brian, agreed, though I prefer they abide by our laws, not necessarily our expectations – only because I don’t know what Austalian expectations are! My personal expectations are that people – all people – don’t spread hatred. To me, there is little difference between a Muslim boy holding up a sign suggesting blasphemers be beheaded and the leader of the Anglican church in Sydney suggesting that women be subservient to men.

  31. Iain Hall says:

    Brian
    I have absolutely no time at all for kiddie fiddlers, in fact given the power I would have each and everyone of them dispatched with “extreme prejudice”. that said compared to the belligerence of Islam towards modernity and the very foundations stones of western civilisation like our notions of individual autonomy and the liberty to mock anything and everything I think that as bad as priestly abuse is and has been with in the catholic church it pales into insignificance compared to the atrocities done in the name of Allah.

  32. Iain Hall says:

    Nigel

    Iain, if you can come up with a rational, logical way of assessing one religion against the other, then good luck to you! (Though I do worry that the same system of assessment might then be applied to races of people.)

    I have spent a life time arguing about religion and that has necessitated me making some efforts to study what each faith says about the world and what it expects from its devotees. So I look at all of them based upon something akin to the Hippocratic oath, namely firstly they must “do no harm” So I therefore disavow any religion that entails human or animal sacrifice, then the next step on my ladder of relative virtue finds that any faith that calls upon the faithful to kill or subjugate unbelievers with the sword or the bomb unacceptable, above that is those faiths that preach and practice their religion in such a way that enhances a caring and compassionate society. at the very top of my list are religions that are just full of wonder and reverence for the wonders of life and existence. Thus even as a life long atheist I can respect the truly spiritual faiths and reserve my disdain for those that are socially pernicious.

  33. Brian says:

    Iain, are you seriously suggesting the real and widespread damage done by child molesting priests IN AUSTRALIA and covered up by higher clergy IN AUSTRALIA is of lesser concern to us than a bunch of stone-throwing tribalists changing medieval mumbo jumbo in desert countries thousands of miles away?

    That kind of attitude is dangerous. While we’re tut tutting over events in far off Pakistan or Yemen, Father Phil McCrackin might be having his way with our future generations. I prefer to focus on real dangers to our society, not overblown and as yet unmanifested ones.

    Know thine enemy mate.

  34. Brian says:

    Brian, agreed, though I prefer they abide by our laws, not necessarily our expectations – only because I don’t know what Austalian expectations are!

    Yeah I don’t mean “GD’s” bogan expectations, i.e. you must go to the pub, listen to Cold Chisel and assimilate. Just common sense liberal ones, like toleration of others and respect for the rule of law. And not chanting jihad and issuing fatwas on street corners. They can leave that crap in their homelands.

  35. Iain Hall says:

    Brian

    Iain, are you seriously suggesting the real and widespread damage done by child molesting priests IN AUSTRALIA and covered up by higher clergy IN AUSTRALIA is of lesser concern to us than a bunch of stone-throwing tribalists changing medieval mumbo jumbo in desert countries thousands of miles away?

    How many of the victims of this sort of abuse have actually died as a result of being convinced to have a sexual relationship with their priest? Some certainly have been fucked up by it I’ll concede that but compared to the atrocities done in the name of Islam they are of a (slightly) lesser magnitude. I abhor both to be honest but I can’t possibly agree that a vile thing done locally is a greater evil just because of its proximity.

    That kind of attitude is dangerous. While we’re tut tutting over events in far off Pakistan or Yemen, Father Phil McCrackin might be having his way with our future generations. I prefer to focus on real dangers to our society, not overblown and as yet unmanifested ones.

    Actually I have been thinking about the Austrlaians killed in the name of Allah in Bali, London and New York.

    Know thine enemy mate.

    I do Brian , I really do.
    BTW my wife’s family are Catholics and I have had close friends in that faith tradition of most of my life so despite the priestly abuse I have a great deal of time for the Catholics who are mostly good and sincere people who care about humanity.

  36. Craigy says:

    “How many of the victims of this sort of abuse have actually died as a result of being convinced to have a sexual relationship with their priest?”

    Here you go Iain, and this is just in Victoria….

    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/churchs-suicide-victims-20120412-1wwox.html

    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/catholic-church-upheld-618-child-sex-abuse-cases-20120921-26cem.html

    They should be held to account, this is much worse than anything done by followers of Islam in this country – don’t you agree?…..Hard to defend this kind of cover-up, but still people support these people and their corrupt club.

    Are you happy to give them tax breaks?

  37. Brian says:

    How many of the victims of this sort of abuse have actually died as a result of being convinced to have a sexual relationship with their priest?

    Well plenty, if you consider those who have taken their own lives as a result.

    Actually I have been thinking about the Austrlaians killed in the name of Allah in Bali, London and New York.

    We have responded to those terrible attacks accordingly Iain. We committed troops to Afghanistan, gave police and anti-terrorist support to Indonesia. Al-Qaeda is now leaderless and dispersed and JI is much less of a threat than it was before Bali. What more would you have us, as a nation, do? There is no intelligence of an existing or even incipient threat posed by similar groups within Australia. All we seem to have are isolated ratbags and tub thumpers who might like to follow Bin Laden but don’t have either the brains or the backing. There is no evidence that radical Islam poses a serious threat to Australia at the moment.

    BTW my wife’s family are Catholics and I have had close friends in that faith tradition of most of my life so despite the priestly abuse I have a great deal of time for the Catholics who are mostly good and sincere people who care about humanity.

    My wife’s family is Catholic too and by and large they are good people. But their rather pitiful response whenever the issue of sexual abuse is raised is that it is a campaign being waged against the church by atheists and non-Catholics. Therein lies the problem, you hardly see any Catholics speaking out against their own church about this. It’s a bit like the quite valid point made about Muslims: why don’t moderate Muslims speak out against the loonies in their faith?

    I am pleased to see Craigy is of a similar mind to me on this issue.

  38. Iain Hall says:

    Well surely it has to boil down to a judgement about buggery being slightly less nasty than bombs IMHO.
    As for Catholics speaking out well plenty do But I suspect that you gentlemen can’t comprehend how anyone would want to stay in an organisation that has sheltered and protected abusive priests the answer lays in the simple fact that they get something of value out of their faith and they hope that the abusers can be removed and given their just deserts.

    Still even with its problems Catholicism is far less pernicious than Islam. Christianity is adapting to modernity where as Islam just wants to return society to the middle ages.

    Oh and when it comes to the numbers of abuse victims they are still rather small numbers compared to the victims of Islamic extremists

  39. Nigel says:

    ‘When it comes to the numbers of abuse victims they are still rather small numbers compared to the victims of Islamic extremists’ – mathematics and justice are two different things.

  40. Iain Hall says:

    Oh I agree with that Nigel but it wasn’t me who was trying to distract attention form Islamic , shall we say “indiscretions” by bringing up the abuse committed by priests in the Catholic church. Then again if you want to consider sexual abuse you could also look at Islamic sexual abuse being ignored for years as well

  41. paulwello says:

    Iain, that article has nothing to do with Islamic sexual abuse, not once in that article was the religion of Islam mentioned or Muslims mentioned in the article.

    But this was mentioned

    ‘Sexual predators do come from different sections of the community and are criminals who need to be brought to justice regardless of their background.
    ‘We have worked closely with communities and community leaders across Rotherham in recent years to enlist their support in helping to tackle some of these issues and to educate people about sexual exploitation.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2207756/Victim-sex-gang-offered-Urdu-Punjabi-lessons-confidential-papers-reveal.html#ixzz27TMA59hS
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  42. Craig says:

    Back in the old Catholic day, men who had unnatural urges, were seldom castrated, usually by the sinners own request, such was the belief in religion and the fear of sin. If a man was caught buggering around no doubt back then it would of been death. All of these castrated, on request men ended up in the choir as Castrato singers. Here’s the last Italian Castrato…Only from 100 odd years ago.

    European men who were captured by the Barbary pirates and sold into slavery and castrated, if these European men successfully escaped and some did, they had the option of becoming priests, being they were no longer counted as normal men.

    So that’s what solved a lot of the paedophile tendencies in our past history that would probably be considered barbaric today. Being we have no harsh religion any more, paedophiles with homosexual tenancies are attracted to power, where they have access to young boys. The same can be said of a couple Aboriginal communities(The Children are sacred report) that suffer from an epidemic of pederasty, the worst male offenders were men with the most power in the schools.

    Interesting enough the homosexual tendencies in ancient Greece were also based on pederasty. Just as is the epidemic pederasty among the Muslims in Afghanistan, bacha bazi or in english dancing boys and this occurs in many other Muslim countries, apparently it’s apart of a certain culture.

    Interesting no.

    Anyway I don’t think the Western politicians should bend over backwards to the Muslims faux out rage at a movie no one knew about, it only legitimises these pathetic rants by the Muslims. Why aren’t the Muslims protesting about the wars in Afganistan, or Iraq or the war drums beating for Iranians blood? Why aren’t the Muslims protesting the ethnic replacement of the Muslim peoples in Turkmenistan, with Han Chinese. Why aren’t the Muslims protesting of the wars in the Caucuses mountains? Pathetic in my opinion.

  43. Craig says:

    Caucasus mountains, sorry. 🙂

  44. Craig says:

    Oh and that should, should be a shouldn’t. In the first sentence of the last paragraph.

    Iain if you don’t mind fixing my boo boos much appreciated. If not, eh.

  45. Craig says:

    Damn it, my mistake ignore my comment at 12:10 am, may as well let everyone laugh at my boobhoobery. 🙂

  46. GD says:

    Brian, I never said

    Yeah I don’t mean “GD’s” bogan expectations, i.e. you must go to the pub, listen to Cold Chisel

    OK?

  47. GD says:

    Anyway, what’s wrong with Aussie’s listening to Cold Chisel?

    I suppose you apologists reckon we should be listening to this crap

  48. GD says:

    Still even with its problems Catholicism is far less pernicious than Islam. Christianity is adapting to modernity where as Islam just wants to return society to the middle ages. Oh and when it comes to the numbers of abuse victims they are still rather small numbers compared to the victims of Islamic extremists

    It’s obscene that muslim apologists on this blog feel the need to find ‘moral equivalence’ with the Catholic Church.

    Yes, the Catholic Church has a terrible history of priesthood pedophilia. It needs to be addressed, it needs to be eradicated.

    It must be said that this is but one aspect of the Catholic Church. I am not a Catholic, however throughout my life I have become aware of the good that the Catholic Church has done for Australia.

    To this day, the Catholic Church supports the homeless and the refugees while the Greens merely pontificate about refugees’ rights and completely ignore the homeless.

    At the same time the muslim apologists on this blog would rather ignore horrifying Islamic customs practised in Australia such as:

    female genital mutilation
    pedophilia
    forced child and teenage marriage
    polygamy
    incest

    and instead focus on Catholic priesthood pedophilia.

    This is surely moral equivalence at its worst. While condemning Catholics at large, they excuse the multiple abhorrent customs of the Muslims they seek to defend.

    What’s even worse is Australian media bending over backwards to accommodate these Muslim f*cktards.

  49. Iain Hall says:

    Paul
    Well thanks for dropping by and leaving me your pearls of wisdom on this story however what you are missing is that this is but one story about this phenomena and if you had been following the issue you would know that it has been previously reported that the reason that these men have been grooming the young girls has a great to do with the negative attitude of east Asian Muslim men towards women in general and white women in particular. This all stems from the tenets of the faith and its innate misogyny.

  50. Iain Hall says:

    Hi Craig and welcome to the Sandpit 😉

    I think that you are wrong about the history of the Castrato singers and that to be absolutely historically correct you should note that it was a prohibition against female singers that led to the practice where pre pubescent boys who could sing were emasculated so that they would not have their voices “break”.

  51. Brian says:

    Brian, I never said “you must go to the pub, listen to Cold Chisel”. OK?

    Anyway, what’s wrong with Aussie’s listening to Cold Chisel?

    So you didn’t say it – then you follow up by saying it.
    There is nothing wrong with listening to Cold Chisel. So long as you aren’t stupid enough to think that listening to Cold Chisel is a pre-requisite for being Australian.

    It’s obscene that muslim apologists on this blog feel the need to find ‘moral equivalence’ with the Catholic Church.

    I already knew you can’t read. But you must be confounded moron if you think I’m either an apologist for Islam or have claimed moral equivalence with the Catholic Church. Try actually reading what I have written on the subject. Preferably during the cold light of day, not at 4am when you’re either pissed or half asleep.

    At the same time the muslim apologists on this blog would rather ignore horrifying Islamic customs practised in Australia such as female genital mutilation, pedophilia, forced child and teenage marriage, polygamy, incest

    Provide evidence that those things are being conducted by Muslims in Australia. And I don’t mean one or two cases, I mean systematically. Otherwise, shut the **** up with your paranoid conspiracy theories.

  52. Brian says:

    Oh I agree with that Nigel but it wasn’t me who was trying to distract attention form Islamic , shall we say “indiscretions” by bringing up the abuse committed by priests in the Catholic church. Then again if you want to consider sexual abuse you could also look at Islamic sexual abuse being ignored for years as well

    Distraction?? No Iain, I prefer to think about solving real problems. Not ones that either don’t yet exist here, or are problems in other countries, where we can’t do much or anything about them. You seem to prefer to deal with imagined problems rather than tangible ones.

    And that link you provide shows evidence of … well, basically nothing. It’s an account of criminal behaviour by young men. Were doing it because of Islamic teachings? If so, why were they drinking booze and taking drugs? Both are explicitly forbidden in Islam.

    it has been previously reported that the reason that these men have been grooming the young girls has a great to do with the negative attitude of east Asian Muslim men towards women in general and white women in particular.

    Where has it been “previously reported”? I’m inclined to think you’re making that up.

  53. Iain Hall says:

    Brian
    there are lots of reports about this nasty practice in the UK and all of them suggests that it has been a sort of horrid political correctness that has allowed this to flourish. My point in citing it was to make it clear that Muslims commit sexual crimes just as much (or more) as catholic priests. I would argue that the sex gang grooming in the UK is actually far worse than anything done by a miscreant priest.
    Further there is the sexual exploitation of young boys in Afghanistan you just can’t suggest that Islam is any sort of paragon of sexual morality.

  54. Craigy says:

    So over 600 cases of sexual abuse and dozens of suicides are due to the actions of officers of the Catholic Club, including abuse ignored by the current leader of the club in Australia, and this is not that bad according to you Iain?

    Then you smear Islam with the false claim that it has been involved with sexual exploitation of boys in Afghanistan?…….You didn’t read your own link now did you? (If you did you would have seen that the Taliban banned that practice and it has only become a problem again post-Taliban).

    I don’t read anyone supporting the vile practices of a small minority that you quote above Iain but I do clearly see you and your extremist friends making light of the real harm done to your fellow Australians by the actions of the Catholic cult. You should be ashamed.

  55. Brian says:

    Iain,

    Sorry mate, your argument is bogus and you haven’t offered a skerrick of credible evidence to support it. Internet grooming and gang related sex crimes are undoubtedly on the increase. But there is no evidence (or at least you have produced none) that this has got anything to do with Islam or Islamic beliefs. It’s a general trend across the board. The problem is just as widespread in the US and Australia among non Muslim youths.

    My point in citing it was to make it clear that Muslims commit sexual crimes just as much (or more) as catholic priests.

    Of course they bloody well do. There are 2 billion odd Muslims in the world, whereas I doubt there are much more than 50,000 Catholic clergymen.

    I would argue that the sex gang grooming in the UK is actually far worse than anything done by a miscreant priest.

    Yes it is, it’s worse by several orders of magnitude, because you know that if a girl is lured into a street gang then their intentions are going to be nefarious to say the least. A parish priest or brother holds a position of trust and is expected to provide care for children. His is a much bigger crime because it is a much bigger breach of trust. It’s like comparing street rapists with the sly teacher who chats up your daughter on the internet so he can you know what.

    Also at least sex grooming gangs can be identified, investigated, charged and brought to justice. They have no organisation covering their arse by concealing evidence, making pay-offs, promising to deal with the matter internally and failing to do so.

  56. paulwello says:

    Iain you stated that the article was about Islam sexual abuse, the article you have given are about sexual grooming, and has nothing to do with Islam. And there is sexual grooming in just about every culture in the world not just Afghanistan.

  57. Brian says:

    Craigy, thanks for your input. Like you I find Iain’s attitude bewildering. He falls over himself to hate on Muslims and attribute any and every crime to Islamic ideology. But when confronted with the issue of Catholic sexual abuses and cover-ups, he either downplays it or writes it off as a much smaller problem than the evil Muslims.

    A good cause for shame indeed, if you ask me.

  58. paulwello says:

    When Iain is found out, he changes the issues and does not like being told he is wrong and will try and worm his way out of the argument.

    Craigy and Brian, I agree with you on this issue, any sexual abuse is a crime and the abuser should be dealt with accordingly, but Iain.s hate of Muslims is showing through.

  59. Craig says:

    Hey Iain,

    Well it was a Transgendered, I guess a modern day Castrato in a way that gave me that information on the Castrato singers, so perhaps this Trans had an agenda?

    Any way I had a look around to see if there was any more evidence of such, was quite a few years ago when I found out about some of the Castrato business.

    Homosexual propaganda organ or news site if you will.

    Dutch Roman Catholic Church Castrated Boys As ‘Treatment’ For Homosexuality

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/19/dutch-church-castrated-treatment-homosexuality_n_1365725.html?ref=gay-voices&ir=Gay%20Voices&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008

    It also seems paedophiles still want the option of some form of castration, there you go modern day humanism and chemical castration, who would of thought.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/03/13/chemical-castration-paedophiles-sex-offenders_n_1341112.html

  60. Iain Hall says:

    Craigy

    So over 600 cases of sexual abuse and dozens of suicides are due to the actions of officers of the Catholic Club, including abuse ignored by the current leader of the club in Australia, and this is not that bad according to you Iain?

    Of course its bad Craigy I have never claimed otherwise.

    Then you smear Islam with the false claim that it has been involved with sexual exploitation of boys in Afghanistan?…….You didn’t read your own link now did you? (If you did you would have seen that the Taliban banned that practice and it has only become a problem again post-Taliban).

    How is it a false claim? It happens still.

    I don’t read anyone supporting the vile practices of a small minority that you quote above Iain but I do clearly see you and your extremist friends making light of the real harm done to your fellow Australians by the actions of the Catholic cult. You should be ashamed.

    I’m not the one who brought up the comparison with Catholicism and I have no trouble condemning any and all abusers no matter what their faith tradition maybe. Your problem is the one typical of the left and that is you are so afraid of being critical of Islam and its followers that you do anything to down play every instance shall we say “indiscretions” by its followers.
    Brian

    Sorry mate, your argument is bogus and you haven’t offered a skerrick of credible evidence to support it. Internet grooming and gang related sex crimes are undoubtedly on the increase. But there is no evidence (or at least you have produced none) that this has got anything to do with Islam or Islamic beliefs. It’s a general trend across the board. The problem is just as widespread in the US and Australia among non Muslim youths.

    Its not about “internet” grooming at all Brian its real world grooming That said it has everything to do with the way that Muslims view women in general and western women in particular. Theirs is such sexually repressive faith that obsesses over female modesty to such an extent that they can’t seem to appreciate that we don’t have the same aversion to the flesh that their religion teaches.

    I would argue that the sex gang grooming in the UK is actually far worse than anything done by a miscreant priest.

    Yes it is, it’s worse by several orders of magnitude, because you know that if a girl is lured into a street gang then their intentions are going to be nefarious to say the least. A parish priest or brother holds a position of trust and is expected to provide care for children. His is a much bigger crime because it is a much bigger breach of trust. It’s like comparing street rapists with the sly teacher who chats up your daughter on the internet so he can you know what.

    The breach of trust is not really that different Brian

    Also at least sex grooming gangs can be identified, investigated, charged and brought to justice. They have no organisation covering their arse by concealing evidence, making pay-offs, promising to deal with the matter internally and failing to do so.

    They are BOTH bad things Brian and its arguable as to which is worse, one child abused by one person compared to one child abused by many at the same time, even when you take into account the systemic issues you cite in the Catholic experience that does not of necessity make it worse than cases where one girl has been misused by a gang and then they have conspired to avoid justice by either providing each other with alibis and perps relying upon the claims that they are being victimised because of their ethnicity. So we have bad and bad and if you want we could go through the minutiae of individual cases rating they on some arbitrary scale to see which scores as “most nasty” but what would that achieve?
    Paul

    Iain you stated that the article was about Islam sexual abuse, the article you have given are about sexual grooming, and has nothing to do with Islam. And there is sexual grooming in just about every culture in the world not just Afghanistan.

    Isn’t “grooming” part of sexual abuse? At the very least its a precursor to abuse so I don’t think that you manage to make your argument here.

    Brian

    Craigy, thanks for your input. Like you I find Iain’s attitude bewildering. He falls over himself to hate on Muslims and attribute any and every crime to Islamic ideology. But when confronted with the issue of Catholic sexual abuses and cover-ups, he either downplays it or writes it off as a much smaller problem than the evil Muslims.

    I don’t hate Muslims(the people) but I find the faith and ideology that they follow to be, shall we say, somewhat less than admirable, its a totalitarian belief system, that is inexorably misogynistic, anti Semitic and at odds with every liberal tradition and aspiration of modern society it posits a deity of such insecurity that he requires supplication five times a day from the faithful, it promises divine rewards to those who kill in the name of Allah. If a secular ideology had any or all of these vices would you not be condemning it?

    A good cause for shame indeed, if you ask me.

    Not at all 🙄

  61. Brian says:

    Its not about “internet” grooming at all Brian its real world grooming That said it has everything to do with the way that Muslims view women in general and western women in particular.

    No it isn’t Iain. When young men gather in numbers and get pumped up on testosterone, booze and drugs, they prey on young women, usually for sex. They’ve been doing it since the dawn of time. You are kidding yourself if you think Islam is the only or even the main driving force behind this kind of crime.

    Theirs is such sexually repressive faith that obsesses over female modesty to such an extent that they can’t seem to appreciate that we don’t have the same aversion to the flesh that their religion teaches.

    Oh I agree. I just don’t buy your so far totally unproven theory that Muslim men are given to sexual assault because of their religion.

    The breach of trust is not really that different Brian

    It is entirely different Iain. I can’t believe you would suggest otherwise. Priests, teachers, doctors, nurses and police officers are supposed to protect our children. That is a fundamental expectation of our society.

    If a secular ideology had any or all of these vices would you not be condemning it?

    In case you have missed it, like your buddy “GD”, I have repeatedly written here that I despise Islam and its tenets, for all the reasons you state, and then some. But I am not so unrealistic as to believe that people are entirely defined, ruled or spoiled by their religious beliefs. Especially in democratic societies like ours, where religions are tempered by social mores, the rule of law, liberal values, etc. Australian Muslims, a few nutters and bad apples aside, aren’t much different from the rest of us. To suggest that we should let no Muslims into Australia because they might rape our women in the name of Allah sounds like something you’d read in Mein Kampf or some KKK pamphlet, not on a serious blog.

  62. Ray Dixon says:

    Iain & GD (and others like Kman), what are you trying to say – that we should ban immigrants based simply on their religious beliefs because that religion (Islam) teaches them bad things? Maybe it does. The question is, do you want Australia to go down that path and become known as an anti-muslim country? What impact do you think that would have? What reprisals would you expect? Mate(s), it’d be like waving a red flag at a bull in a 10 x 10 room. You’ve got to be kidding.

    Be careful what you wish for ……..

  63. Iain Hall says:

    Brian

    No it isn’t Iain. When young men gather in numbers and get pumped up on testosterone, booze and drugs, they prey on young women, usually for sex. They’ve been doing it since the dawn of time. You are kidding yourself if you think Islam is the only or even the main driving force behind this kind of crime.

    You make it sound like its something spontaneous Brian when everything that I have read about this suggests that it is far more calculated than that and its not just testosterone fuelled young men who have been the perps.

    Theirs is such sexually repressive faith that obsesses over female modesty to such an extent that they can’t seem to appreciate that we don’t have the same aversion to the flesh that their religion teaches.

    Oh I agree. I just don’t buy your so far totally unproven theory that Muslim men are given to sexual assault because of their religion.

    Don’t you get that attitudes to sex and sexuality are are a product of the religious ideology that they are inculcated with from childhood?

    The breach of trust is not really that different Brian

    It is entirely different Iain. I can’t believe you would suggest otherwise. Priests, teachers, doctors, nurses and police officers are supposed to protect our children. That is a fundamental expectation of our society.

    From the point of view of the betrayed I don’t think that it matter too much what the general social exceptions are for those professions. Its the abuse that impacts upon these children not the social role of the abuser.

    In case you have missed it, like your buddy “GD”, I have repeatedly written here that I despise Islam and its tenets, for all the reasons you state, and then some. But I am not so unrealistic as to believe that people are entirely defined, ruled or spoiled by their religious beliefs.

    If they say they are “defined” by being Muslims why won’t you believe them Brian?

    Especially in democratic societies like ours, where religions are tempered by social mores, the rule of law, liberal values, etc. Australian Muslims, a few nutters and bad apples aside, aren’t much different from the rest of us.

    If they are following the faith that you admit is vile then why do you think that it won’t influence their behaviour in a negative way?

    To suggest that we should let no Muslims into Australia because they might rape our women in the name of Allah sounds like something you’d read in Mein Kampf or some KKK pamphlet, not on a serious blog.

    No the ones that sound like something from ” Mein Kampf or some KKK pamphlet” are the followers of Islam.

    Ray

    Iain & GD (and others like Kman), what are you trying to say – that we should ban immigrants based simply on their religious beliefs because that religion (Islam) teaches them bad things? Maybe it does. The question is, do you want Australia to go down that path and become known as an anti-muslim country? What impact do you think that would have? What reprisals would you expect? Mate(s), it’d be like waving a red flag at a bull in a 10 x 10 room. You’ve got to be kidding.

    Be careful what you wish for ……..

    As you know I am no fan of unending migration so if we are going to moderate the numbers that we allow to settle here then lets chose those people who are most likely to become good and useful citizens and who are not likely to try to cut off the hand that feeds them

  64. Ray Dixon says:

    We do moderate the numbers of immigrants, Iain, but are you seriously suggesting we ban muslims on the grounds that they won’t “become good and useful citizens” and will “try to cut off the hand that feeds them”? Don’t avoid the question – do you want the government to put a blanket ban on muslims migrating to Australia? This is what you and GD seem to be advocating. That would be making Australia terrorist target #1 and you’d sure as hell see mayhem in the streets (which ironically you’re saying you don’t want).

  65. Brian says:

    I’m not going to waste any more time on the issue Iain. I thought “GD” and “kman” were the resident xenophobes here. But now I see you are no different, and I’m not sure if I can be bothered repeating myself any more.

    Unlike you, I am capable of seeing the good in people despite their outdated, wacky or hysterical beliefs. That applies to you as much as it does to any Muslim, so no hard feelings.

  66. Brian says:

    That would be making Australia terrorist target #1 and you’d sure as hell see mayhem in the streets (iwhich ironically you’re saying you don’t want).

    Possibly Ray. Worse than that, it will be disastrous for international relations. We will become a pariah state, esp. to Muslim or part-Muslim nations. We will lose trade deals with the Middle East and Malaysia. And we’ll piss off our nearest neighbour, a country of 260 million Muslims a couple of hundred miles to the north. Not to worry though because the country is run by smarter, more tolerant people and it will never happen.

  67. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    we are already a target so what difference would it make ?

  68. Ray Dixon says:

    Iain, if we had a blanket ban on muslim immigration then you’d see the difference. It’d be just asking for trouble and, quite frankly, we’d deserve it. Whereas if we continue the way we’ve been handling it then we will handle any ‘bad apples’. They’re in all groups, Iain – even among the Ten Pounders.

  69. Iain Hall says:

    frankly Ray I don’t see how banning any group of people from immigrating here would cause any sort of social problems or make us more of a terrorist target. Further why would be “deserve” any subsequent troubles?

  70. Brian says:

    I can’t believe I’m reading this. Here’s what would likely happen, Iain, if we went ahead with your idea to ban any/all Muslim immigration.

    Firstly, we’d be condemned as racist or prejudiced by just about every civilised state. We’d be in violation of a string of UN resolutions and covenants. We’d be a laughing stock, not far behind the deep South of the US in the 60s and South Africa in the 70s. No more visas for Australian visitors to Muslim countries, including Bali (Indonesia) or the various European transit stops in the Middle East.

    Muslim countries and those sympathetic to them would want nothing more to do with us. Our farmers would lose valuable export deals to the Middle East (grain & livestock chiefly). Malaysia is a significant purchaser of Australian exports – also gone. Wealthy Arabs would divest themselves of whatever Australian stock they had. There might be an oil embargo imposed on us by OPEC, forcing us to by it through intermediaries, which would jack up the price considerably.

    Australians abroad would be targets for anything from abuse to murderous acts of terrorism. Our soldiers in Afghanistan, backpackers in Africa, Egypt & the Middle East, ex-pats in the UK. Our embassies and diplomats in the 80 or so Muslim countries. Our cricketers in Asia, our soccer players in the next World Cup in Qatar, Olympians, etc. etc.

    And none of that takes into account what our local Muslims might do in response. It would certainly radicalise some of them.

    It would be an act of enormous stupidity and sheer folly. I can’t believe you are seriously endorsing it. I thought you have more common sense.

  71. Iain Hall says:

    Well I can’t believe any of that disastrous scenario Brian, I really can’t accept that at all. neither GD no I are advocating expelling anyone who is currently here, just not accepting any more as permanent residents. As Ray well knows I am no fan of an ever expanding population for this country so I would have no trouble saying that we should substantially reduce the number of all immigrants into the future.
    Further what UN convention requires us to accept any immigration at all?

  72. Ray Dixon says:

    Just banning immigrants from muslim countries would do all of what Brian suggested and more, Iain. Expelling existing ones would just about ensure a worldwide embargo on Australia, like what happened to Sth Africa. The better (and right) option is to continue our present programs and screening processes.

  73. Brian says:

    You can believe it, Iain, because if would happen. If you believe it there’d be no backlash, then you’re dreamin’, as the movie says.

    There’s no UN obligation to accept migrants. But there is a moral obligation to do so. We’re a pitifully small population living on the coastal fringes of the world’s largest island. Some of our regional and rural areas are crying out for people and workers. Calling a halt or even a dramatic slowdown to our immigration would be like five people occupying an entire train carriage during peak hour, bolting the door and saying “piss off, we’re full”.

    Is it true you were a ten pound Pom? Why is it that those who have benefited from emigrating to Australia want to deny the privilege to others?

  74. Iain Hall says:

    Brian
    Yes I am a ten pound Pom, however given the fact that this country was built by us poms I reckon it gives us a right to preferential treatment .

  75. Richard Ryan says:

    Most of the Poms I know, refuse to become Australian citizens, some have been here for over fifty years—–very strange!

  76. GD says:

    Brian said:

    I can’t believe I’m reading this

    Brian and Ray, I can’t believe I’m reading your comments. Are you seriously suggesting that Australia needs to appease Islamic nations in case we offend them? That Australia has to continue increased Islamic immigration in case we upset these third world countries?

    Even worse is Brian’s suggestion that by doing this we would risk local hotheads, I’d call them shitheads, becoming, as he says, ‘radicalised’.

    Well Brian, I’d suggest that you stop worrying about your precious ragheads, and instead start thinking about the bountiful country you live in, and show some pride and backbone rather than your current attitude of appeasement to nations who have not had half the success that Australia has had.

    As Winston Churchill said

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  77. Brian says:

    Well Brian, I’d suggest that you stop worrying about your precious ragheads, and instead start thinking about the bountiful country you live in, and show some pride and backbone rather than your current attitude of appeasement to nations who have not had half the success that Australia has had.

    On the contrary, numb nuts, I’ve got more pride in my country than you have.

    I’m proud of it because it is what it is today because of the different people who have come here. I’m proud of it because I know for the most part, it is resistant to flag waving fanatics and religious nutjobs. I’m proud of it because we’ve got far more tolerant people like Ray, Nigel, paul, etc. than we do racist idiots like you.

    You, on the other hand, think that Australia and Australians are so weak that they need to be protected from “ragheads” (lovely) but shutting the borders. That’s how low your regard for Australia is.

    I’m an optimist about Australia; you’re a pessimist. This tells us something about your life and why you’re so angry and afraid. Perhaps you should just take a Bex and have a good lie down.

  78. Iain Hall says:

    Well maybe we need to be more selective in the Muslim immigrants that we accept, perhaps we should just be very much more choosy about which Lebanese we allow in

  79. Brian says:

    I think all potential immigrants should be screened closely as a matter of course, Iain. If they or their close family has any history of involvement in fundamentalist branches or violent groups, then forget it. That goes without saying.

  80. Iain Hall says:

    Sadly Brian questions of religious involvement tend to be ignored when it comes to Muslim immigrants, usually for fear of offending them

  81. Brian says:

    I find that very difficult to believe Iain.
    What is your source for this information?

  82. Ray Dixon says:

    Brian and Ray, I can’t believe I’m reading your comments. Are you seriously suggesting that Australia needs to appease Islamic nations in case we offend them? That Australia has to continue increased Islamic immigration in case we upset these third world countries?

    No GD. That’s just an obvious twist you’re putting on my words. I said we can’t ban muslims on the basis of their religion and if we did there’d be a backlash. To advocate a blanket ban on all muslims simply because, in your opinion, they don’t fit in (and because a small number might be a problem down the track) is idiotic. We already have screening processes and we deny residence to anyone with a record or a history of terrorist links. Even a remote connection is grounds for rejection. Then we have something called our legal system to deal with any ‘cleanskin’ muslims who, after gaining entry, for some reason or another turn feral and/or plot (dream up) some kind of terrorist event. What you’re advocating is extremely prejudical, racist and unacceptable. We have to learn to live with people of different race and religion, GD. We have to accept that as the world’s population grows we must also grow and take a reasonable share of immigrants – for their good and for ours.

  83. Craig says:

    Ah yes only colonial countries and the motherland that spawned us must accept mass immigration of the others… Liberal Prog mind ON “Otherwise we’ll shame you as prejudiced, racists and the purveyors of unacceptable thought crimes. We must become an integrated global ocean of humanity as we are all human and the same, we are all equal.”

    Funny how Liberal progs have replaced the word sin with racist, in the literal psych war of the minds. Racist, prejudiced those catch words of shame really have lost the power they had 20 years ago, the shift from 5 years ago is really telling.

    The Hegelian dialectic of the Universal brotherhood and the Fabians is really working out well in the Western world, particularly with the foreign policy, and mass immigration isn’t it? Never let statistics and facts get in the way of fundamentalist political ideology, which has as much basis in truth as the bibles creationism story.

    As the global population rises the pie of wealth shrinks, as national populations rises the pie of wealth and prosperity shrinks, and then the gap between rich and poor ever widens. The economic construct of the “New Deal” is coming to an end soon enough, as the saying goes, “As more things change, the more they stay the same.”.

    Suck it up debt slaves, and enjoy the pinnacle of our golden era.

  84. Craig says:

    By the way I’m of the generation Y, maybe that’s why I’m a pessimist. Now that Labor is considering taxes on superannuation, I’m sure more and more boomer’s will become pessimists as time permits. No doubt the Coalition would keep such taxes, as the “Tea Party” is folded into the Liberal right.

    That’s where Labor stuffed up as The Greens could not be folded back into Labor, I hope Katter’s party does the same for the coalition or perhaps another more traditional conservative party.

    Interesting times, as the cyclic waves of time goes.

  85. Ray Dixon says:

    I’m of the generation Y

    Says it all, mate. You’ll change … when you grow up.

  86. Craig says:

    Still don’t get it do you Ray, well when someone of your generation grew up with free University, I can understand that.

  87. Ray Dixon says:

    My generation grew up with very limited opportunities to go to University. To start with, there were only 2 in Melbourne and very few made it that far. In fact very few kids finished high school. University access is now a lot easier but it comes at a cost – ergo you pay for it.

  88. GD says:

    Agreed Ray. I did Jazz at the Con in Sydney. Free certainly, but entrance by audition only. My year was limited to 24 candidates. These days music students can almost buy a degree.

    Not that a music degree is worth anything other than for teaching.

  89. GD says:

    Well actually music at the Con was worth a lot. Not for the piece of paper, but for the interaction with musicians of high calibre and high achievement.

  90. Craig says:

    Having every average person buy an education with debt is working real well in the UK and the USA at the moment, people with degrees and debt flipping burgers. Buying degrees sure doesn’t lead to a meritocracy either.

  91. Brian says:

    Well I’m afraid I’m in agreement with you all there. Once a university degree was testament to hard work, intelligence and practical ability. But the rigour of tertiary education has greatly declined and now a lot of degrees aren’t worth the paper they are printed on. The myth that “everybody should have the chance to go to university” has befouled the whole system, causing standards to drop across the board. Only medicine, dentistry and (to a lesser extent) law remain as competitive and prestigious as they should. Any idiot can get a Bachelor of Arts, and many do.

  92. Iain Hall says:

    Brian check out this old post of mine on that very subject 8)

  93. Brian says:

    Yes, that piece by and large sums up my own views on the matter. A friend of mine was recruiting for his business last year and I told the young interviewees not to bother bringing in their university transcripts, records, etc. He wanted examples of what they could do, not pieces of paper listing what they’ve studied.

    A terrible sex crime down in Melbourne this week Iain. Have you been following it? All very sad. What’s more, the perp had fair skin, red hair and an English name. I don’t think he was Muslim.

  94. Iain Hall says:

    Yes Brian I have been following it and it is indeed a terrible crime one for which the prep deserves an equally brutal punishment sadly If he does 15 years I will be surprised. As for his ethnicity well it proves nothing

  95. Ray Dixon says:

    There’s more work available for tradies than uni degree holders (and more $s to be made) yet how many are choosing to go down the Uni path, Craig? So in a sense gen Y is creating its own problem.

  96. Brian says:

    As for his ethnicity well it proves nothing

    Exactly.

    Gen Y wants the easy path to riches Ray. Tradies begin with an apprenticeship where the wages are low. Best thing the government could do would be to subsidise apprentice wages and encourage more young people to stick out the four years.

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