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Assange, asylum, pizzas, AFL and boat people

This is becoming a Friday habit. For the 2nd week in a row I bring you a re-post of my weekly Alpine Opinion AFL footy tips or, more correctly, its totally football-irrelevant intro. This time it’s about one of Iain’s favourite blokes, Julian Assange. Again, I’ve left out the actual tips, although I’ll just mention that St Kilda will beat the living Christ out of Geelong in tonight’s do-or-die battle:

Domino’s or Eagle Boys?

Despite Ecuador granting Wikileaks’ Julian Assange political asylum, the British government seems determined to take him into custody, even if it means they break all the diplomatic norms and storm the embassy to arrest him.

But is he still there?

Some of the protesters say put him in a diplomatic pouch; others do not even think Mr Assange is inside.

“There was a pizza guy that came to deliver a pizza with his helmet on, he went inside the embassy and then he came back out, hopefully Assange changed clothes with that pizza guy, put that helmet on and went off on the bike,” one protester said.

Um … that’s wishful thinking.

Somehow I don’t think this is going to end very well for Assange. It’s a pretty tense situation and you have to wonder about the whole process of extraditing him to Sweden to answer those clearly trumped-up sex allegations. If that’s all that there is to it (and clearly it’s not) then why is England going to so much trouble over this one person? Surely they’ve got bigger fish to fry than Julian Assange.

(I also have it on good authority that Tony Abbott has asked Ecuador  to take our boat people in the event he becomes Prime Minister. He calls it ‘The Central American solution’)

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44 Comments

  1. Iain Hall says:

    The Uk press are suggesting that there is a statute that would allow the British governemnt to revoke the diplomatic status of the Ecuadorian embassy. so that they could arrest Assuage.

  2. Ray Dixon says:

    Well that law was only passed (in 1987) specifically to allow them to capture a bloke who was shooting from the windows of the Libyan embassy, Iain. What would be the public safety grounds for going in to get Assange? Is he throwing pizzas at the crowd outside perhaps?

  3. Iain Hall says:

    Hmm Maybe they should just call in an air strike Ray 😉

  4. Ray Dixon says:

    They’ve gone so far over-the-top with this case, Iain, that they might as well go the full hog. Seriously, regardless of what you think of Wikileaks (and I’m no fan of it either), this has become a case of political persecution for sure. About time that Gillard or Carr actually said something along the lines of “Fair go”, I reckon.

  5. Iain Hall says:

    They are not able to much in reality Ray, we have no more power to do something about Assauge than they do about the Bali nine. The people in overseas jurisdictions are really on their own.

  6. Ray Dixon says:

    They don’t have to actually do anything, Iain. They just need to say that they’re not happy to see an Australian citizen – who has not been charged with anything – treated like public enemy #1 and that they have reservations about the veracity of the Swedish allegations. That’s all it would take – a bit of diplomacy.

  7. Iain Hall says:

    Given the nature and Raison Detre of wikileaks I would not say that Assauge is any kind of innocent here Ray in fact he is traitor to western civilisation in my book and there are no holes deep enough for him. He is like anyone facing extradition uncharged with a crime but you can’t say that he has not had every chance of fighting it through the courts and that he has not had the same support that any Aussie abroad would have had because he has.

  8. Richard Ryan says:

    Yeah that video showed the Americans in a bad light, the mowing down of those unarmed people in Iraq—and they enjoyed the killing too, it’s in the Yanks genes—-the killing of the bison, after that, the original inhabitants of that continent—they just love killing. I think it’s to do with all the inter-breeding with the Europeans.

  9. Ray Dixon says:

    I’m no fan of Wikileaks either, Iain … as I said before. I reckon a lot of it is hacked information and Assange has an earlier conviction for that. But he has not been charged or even questioned by authorities over it. He is only wanted in Sweden for questioning on obviously ludicrous rape allegations. Would you go there under those circumstances? He has every right to attempt to avoid being railroaded into something that is a clear smokescreen. A trap. And the Brits are just going over-the-top with this. Let the US issue a warrant if they so desire and see if they can get extradtion directly on that basis. They can’t, because only Sweden will directly co-operate with them on this.

  10. Brian says:

    He is like anyone facing extradition uncharged with a crime

    Wrong. The extradition acts of most countries require that the relevant person has been charged with an indictable offence or felony. Assange has not been charged; he has only been questioned.

    Given the nature and Raison Detre of wikileaks I would not say that Assauge is any kind of innocent here.

    Are you seriously suggesting his involvement in Wikileaks means he is guilty of sexual assault? What an extraordinary leap of logic.

  11. GD says:

    Read and weep, Ray…

    http://www.skynews.com.au/sport/article.aspx?id=784941

    I’m in Geelong at the moment, and it is a religion around these parts. The Cats can do no wrong.

  12. Iain Hall says:

    No Brian I’m not suggesting that at all but I am suggesting that he is in fact far from being the sort of secular saint that our friends from the left want to paint him as.
    However if you look at the bigger picture the British government will never allow him to transit from the Ecuadorian embassy without being arrested so all that he has succeeded in doing is ensuring that he will remain there forever.Never able to step out into the street or spend any time in the sunshine.
    So how long do you think he can stay there?

  13. kman says:

    Assange has said he “gets immense pleasure in hurting the American Government” and he “wants to bring it down.” This the very government that is actually safeguarding his freedoms and indeed that of the rest of the free world.
    What Assange actually wants’ is to destroy the government of the country that has ensured that Assange grow up in a free country that is defended almost totally by his hated US Government..
    How can we allow these anarchist / socialists who have hacked into American defence systems and U.S.Embassies to undermine our one and only worthwhile ally the United States, which is almost alone in defending us against Islamic terrorists, nuclear armed rogue states and and an ever growing belligerent Communist China?

    How can we allow these criminal hackers to determine our foreign policy and undermine and expose informants and other U.S.and allied secrets which help to keep our freedoms safe or put allied troops and others in harms way by selecting what classified documents “they” can release to expose to our enemies what “they” might consider would be injustices?

    “U.S. military power has been in building and sustaining the present liberal international order. That order has rested significantly on the U.S. ability to provide security in parts of the world, such as Europe and Asia, that had known endless cycles of warfare before the arrival of the United States. The world’s free-trade, free-market economy has depended on America’s ability to keep trade routes open, even during times of conflict. And the remarkably wide spread of democracy around the world owes something to America’s ability to provide support to democratic forces under siege and to protect peoples from dictators such as Moammar Gaddafi and Slobodan Milosevic.

    Some find it absurd that the United States should have a larger military than the next 10 nations combined. But that gap in military power has probably been the greatest factor in upholding an international system that, in historical terms, is unique” …Robert Kagan.

    The left’s hero Assange is comprimising the security of your family and country- and as Cicero said “A nation can survive its fools and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within…”
    Without America there is no free world.

  14. kman says:

    Two British papers, left-of-f center both, supporters of Wikileaks, have come out with editorials demolishing Assange’s faulty claim to asylum and refugee status under international law. Make no mistake, the two papers continue to support Wikileaks, but they are solidly against Assange’s maneuvers, vis:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/1

    And just wondering -if an American had hacked in to Australian embassies and consulate offices and released thousands of our sensitive diplomatic cables what the response would be from our citizens?

  15. Ray Dixon says:

    You might have (in your own mind) already charged, tried and convicted him for espionage, kman, but in the real world the fact is he has not even been charged with that. Nor has he been charged with Sweden’s ridiculous ‘having sex without a condom’ nonsense. He’s only wanted for questioning on that. Well, they can question him anywhere.

  16. kman says:

    Really? Exactly where did I mention or imply the word “espionage”
    What I actually said was that Assange “is comprimising the security of your family and country” by publishing cables that were hacked from the US Government. Obviously you as a lefty do not believe that compromising the security of the country that safeguards our security and that of the free world is a bad thing.
    Incidentally you can always tell a lefty by the way they manage to invariably presume something that isn’t, and throw in some demeaning remark for good measure, and nothing brings out the “left” in you more than any positive statements re your Great Satan, the USA.

  17. Ray Dixon says:

    I’m not a “lefty” – more a central moderate – and I don’t regard the USA as “Satan”. You can always tell a right-winger by his presumptions that anyone who sees things differently to him is a “lefty”.

    Btw, you didn’t mention the word “espionage” but that’s what your description means.

  18. Ray Dixon says:

    Btw#2: How is this about Wikileaks?

  19. Brian says:

    No Brian I’m not suggesting that at all but I am suggesting that he is in fact far from being the sort of secular saint that our friends from the left want to paint him as.

    What other people think or say about Julian Assange and Wikileaks is (or should be) utterly irrelevant to his treatment before the law on this matter.

    So how long do you think he can stay there?

    I don’t know, nor do I particularly care. What I do know is that it has no direct relevance to the legalities of the case, other than what it reveals about the motives of the British government. Have you stopped to ask yourself why Westminster is going to such lengths to force the extradition of someone who is uncharged and, based on the prima facie evidence, unlikely to be convicted in a fair hearing?

    Obviously you as a lefty do not believe that compromising the security of the country that safeguards our security and that of the free world is a bad thing.

    I’m rather ambivalent about the whole Wikileaks issue, but that comment is just laughable. I’m old enough to remember how the Nixon administration tried to destroy Daniel Ellsberg for exposing Vietnam as a political and military shambles. Perhaps if you knew some of that history, “kman”, your perspective on our ‘great protector’ might be a little more balance.

  20. kman says:

    “I’m rather ambivalent about the whole Wikileaks issue, but that comment is just laughable”.
    How so? Do you actually think that the US does not provide Australia’s security? Do you actually believe that US concerns relating to hackers dissiminating tens of thousands of classified military documents to the world which of course includes our enemies who will use this information against us is laughable?

    “Perhaps if you knew some of that history, “kman”, your perspective on our ‘great protector’ might be a little more balance.”
    And why would that be ? Why would that Nixon incident change my mind on the respect and gratitude for the security the US provides us? As for the “”Great Protector” you seem to be infer that this is not so.
    As an Australian and having once enjoyed the hospitality of Americans for half my life – I take great offence at your absolutely grossly ignorant and stupid blog posting.
    And as for knowing something about history read this…

    FYI the toy Australian Defence Force of 57,000 can not fight it’s way out of the proverbial paper bag.Our navy is in shambles and our 25,000 man army cannot field a measly two battalions overseas for 6 months without American help. The US Navy has more officers than we have personel in our entire ADF.Everyone in Australia including ,you and Julian Assange lives behind the guns of the US Navy and under America’s nuclear umbrella as does most everyone in the free world. The US Navy ensures that our sea lanes stay open so that goods and oil can be exported and imported to our country otherwise most Australians will not only be walking, but also out of a job.

    As for history. After cruhing Japan which ensured that Australia would not be invaded, and having liberated hundreds of millions of subjugated Europeans from a brutal German occupation, the US fed and financed them provided the ways and means to wealth and prosperity while defending them at the same time – you would think that Europeans would be a little grateful to the US, but no the reverse is all too true, especially by Germany and France -the very nations who have caused the bulk of European instability and war causalities.
    .
    The peace and prosperity enjoyed in Europe over the last 60 years is due to two things…one the Marshall Plan, which financed the rebuilding of a shattered Europe while the US opened wide it’s huge and lucrative trading, doors which benefited her former enemies at the expense of her own industries. The second thing was the presence of 80,000 US forces in Europe and the American nuclear shield, which ensured that Red armies would not be marching further through Europe.
    And let’s not forget, for more than 50 years US Aid has fed approximately 3 billion people in 150 countries and that includes just about all socialist countries and America’s enemies in the Middle East and North Korea . And of course the World bank is bankrolled mostly by the US and 25 % ot the anti American UN budget is also ponied up by the USA. And let’s forget the cost of $100 billion p/a for defending the socialist countries of Europe. And in 2009, U.S. bank lending to Europe totaled $1.5 trillion. But of course thats not enoughy for you Brian ,let’s bring up Nixon and something that happened nearly forty yeasr ago as if this negates all what America has done for us all and that ewe must never trust the US again.Stop your freaking whining and apreciate the fact that there is actually one coutry willing to step up to the plate and keep the peace and prosperity that we have enjoyed over the last 60 plus years.

    If America didn’t exist, we’d have to invent it: upon what other convenient scapegoat could we so conveniently load our sins and dump our garbage? Where else would we find such a place to whitewash the crimes of the planet, since anything that goes wrong on earth, from global warming to terrorism, can be laid at America’s door? It’s a stroke of good luck for a dictatorship or a criminal gang finally to be chased down and singled out by the United States. It gains them immediate sympathy, the goodwill of all for whom, in Chris Patten’s words, “the only authorized racism in the modern world is anti-Americanism.” We don’t doubt it for a moment: if the June 1944 landings were happening today, Uncle Adolf would enjoy the sympathy of innumerable patriots and radicals of the extreme left with the excuse that Uncle Sam was aiming to crush them.

  21. Brian says:

    Sorry “kman”, I make it a point not to debate with ignoramuses and blowhards.

  22. Ray Dixon says:

    Yeah, what a blowhard. kman rambles on about the US but he fails to address the actual issue that Assange is facing – being extradition to Sweden on absurdly trumped-up sexual assault allegations. Not worth responding to that diatribe.

  23. kman says:

    Debate me Brian? So I am an ignoramus and a blow hard.Well I tell you Brian, I sure as hell would prefer to be as you described than a freaking ignorant whining ungrateful leftist who parrots the rubbish found in the Green Left Weekly.

    From Ray..Dixon..”Somehow I don’t think this is going to end very well for Assange. It’s a pretty tense situation and you have to wonder about the whole process of extraditing him to Sweden to answer those clearly trumped-up sex allegations. If that’s all that there is to it (and clearly it’s not) then why is England going to so much trouble over this one person? Surely they’ve got bigger fish to fry than Julian Assange.”

    Ray Dixon,you may want to read this piece in today’s Sunday Telegraph by Senior Editor David Penberthy…

    A couple of years ago, against my better judgment, I broke the habit of a lifetime and signed a wanky public communique in support of Wikileaks founder Julian Assange.
    It is something I regret, not just because it violated a long-held conviction that these public statements are a showy exercise in collective egomania.
    n terms of its actions, Wikileaks has taken no care and no responsibility, be it through the release of cables which identify dissidents living under repressive regimes, blowing the cover of people working in intelligence, or jeopardising relations between nations by revealing material which, when not in its proper context, would threaten valuable alliances.

    The other problem with Assange involves his alleged behaviour as a human being. I say alleged because there should be no prejudgment of the sexual assault allegations brought against him by the police in Sweden. He is innocent until proven guilty. This simple point of law seems lost on Assange and his blind army of activist supporters who argue not that he is innocent until proven guilty but innocent full stop, and that the whole thing is some evil conspiracy by the military-industrial complex to destroy him…http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/asylum-is-not-a-safety-net-for-a-court-dodging-assange/story-e6frezz0-1226453226435.

    Oh and Ray, the reason I posted all that previous “diatribe” because I figured that you knew nothing about the US and it’s importance to the world and your support of American / Western hater Assange with quotes like “clearly trumped-up sex allegations.”which you base on absolutely no proof at all, puts you in the camp of what Penberthy calls “blind army of supporters.” who argue not that he is innocent until proven guilty but innocent full stop,and the whole thing is some evil conspiracy by the military-industrial complex to destroy him…
    Yeah Ray, I know not worth responding to,,which is good, because you already said it all and I know exactly where you are coming from.

  24. Brian says:

    This thread is about the legalities and issues relating to Assange’s extradition. That’s what I came here to discuss. I didn’t come here to listen to you rant about Wikileaks, scream at left-wing strawmen and bellow about how much you love the United States. The only thing you’ve added to the topic at hand is this:

    American / Western hater Assange with quotes like “clearly trumped-up sex allegations.”which you base on absolutely no proof at all, puts you in the camp of what Penberthy calls “blind army of supporters.” who argue not that he is innocent until proven guilty but innocent full stop,and the whole thing is some evil conspiracy by the military-industrial complex to destroy him

    Actually, the path to Sweden’s attempt to extradite Assange is well reported and similarly well documented. Dozens of jurists have expressed grave doubts about both the evidence presented in Sweden and the conduct and process of the investigation. As for arguing that someone is “innocent” before their case comes to trial, that happens all the time; it’s a feature of the adversarial system. Think back to Karl Rove and Fox News (no doubt you’re a subscriber).

  25. Ray Dixon says:

    Let me make it clear to you, Kman: I am not a supporter of Julian Assange. Nor do I support Wikileaks.

    The issue here, as I see it, is that Britain & Sweden have singled out Assange on very dubious and unrelated charges. No other person would be treated in such a high-handed and over-zealous manner over an allegation of ‘having sex without a condom’. There’s no reason he can’t be questioned about that in the UK and I suggest that’s what they’d do if his name wasn’t Julian Assange.

    If you want a parallel, look no further than that ‘Hey Dad’ actor Robert Hughes. Allegations were first made about Hughes molesting children (a far more serious crime, I’d say) some 2 years ago, yet the Austn police have only recently applied for his extradition after extensively interviewing him several times … in Singapore, where he lives. That’s exactly what Sweden should have done – interviewed him in the UK before pressing ahead with extradition.

    As for your US ‘diatribe’, the reason I called it that is because (a) it’s irrelevant to this issue (b) I don’t need an education from you on the importance of the US to world security.

    And I have no interest in the opinions of some British journo on this matter either. Or any other journo.

  26. Matt says:

    I am certain that you and I fundamentally differ on many points in the world from ethics to politics, law and the interpretation of history. But it seems we have something in common the treatment of Assange. It seems that the U.S has already made their decision, they want Assanage and they want him bad enough to apply extreme behind the scenes diplomatic pressure.

    This is why the U.K is willing to find whatever grounds they can contrive to storm the Ecuadorian embassy, why the Red Ranga (our non-Australian moll of a PM) and her bunch of corrupt careerist cronies have refused to provide any assistance and essentially hung him out to dry and why the U.S i constantly bleating that they are no interested in Assange. It is also why Labor crony and well known corrupt politician with the golden careerist pay off for towing the party line (foreign minister), I am a retard Bob Carr is making ludicrous claims that the U.S have informed Australia that they have no interest in Assange when the diplomatic cables clearly show otherwise.

    If Assange is winkled out of the Ecuadorean Embassy by the British to be extradited to Sweden he will end up on a CIA plane bound for a secret detention centre in Poland where he will be tortured and most likely disappear. Possibly but it is highly unlikely that this will happen due to the uproar it will create, is that he’ll get a show trial in the U.S for espionage with the death sentence applied. If he finally makes it to Ecuador he more than likely be assassinated (it will be a street robbery) by CIA/U.S Army trained Colombian paramilitaries who move freely in the north of the country.

    Overall I don’t rate his life expectancy to be particularly long and it disgust me that the Australian government on the grounds of political expediency and protecting political careers refuses to assist an Australian citizen and protect them against the predations of the worlds greatest terrorist state. To think that I have served these careerist political and corporate scum bags and used to go out and put my life on the line for their toadying and obsequiousness to the U.S and to further these gutless asshole careerist and power hungry ambitions.

    Oh and by the way Ecuador is in South America, it is sandwiched between Colombia (to the north) and Peru (to the east and south) or at least it was last time I was there.

  27. Ray Dixon says:

    I just saw Assange’s speech from the balcony. There wasn’t a great deal of substance to it but I thought it was clever of him to avoid complaining about the actual extradition or the sexual allegations. By doing so he prolongs the stalemate and puts the ball fairly back in England’s & Sweden’s court to come to their senses and interview him about these allegations in the embassy, not in Sweden. What else can the UK do, storm the embassy? I doubt they’ll do that. So the longer he stays there the more futile the attempts to extradite him become. They can’t go on surrounding the embassy with cops and secret agents forever. Ball’s in their court – round 1 to Assange.

  28. GD says:

    Brian:

    This thread is about the legalities and issues relating to Assange’s extradition. That’s what I came here to discuss.

    Brian, this thread is about

    Assange, asylum, pizzas, AFL and boat people

    Please try and keep up. Don’t go getting all precious because other views disagree with yours.

    Any discussion about Assange is invariably linked to Wikileaks. Why else would we be talking about him? So he forgot to put on a condom? Or whatever the trumped up charge is. Big deal!

    Of course this is all about seeking retribution for his irresponsible hacking and releasing of classified information that should have been vetted before publication.

    But no, hack-boy sees himself as a ‘freedom-fighter’, gunning for not only the American government, but also corporate America.

    Hack-boy is clearly proposing anarchy, not the betterment of society.

    Given that hack-boy is now holed up in the embassy of one of the most totalitarian regimes on the planet, where freedom of the press is a joke, it is rather ironic, isn’t it?

  29. Iain Hall says:

    Ironic indeed GD 😉

  30. Brian says:

    Brian, this thread is about… Assange, asylum, pizzas, AFL and boat peoplePlease try and keep up. Don’t go getting all precious because other views disagree with yours.

    Are you the same GD who produced the nonsensical post about the Muirhead case? I’m surprised you’re game enough to raise your head. In any event, the body of Ray Dixon’s post was clearly about the current events concerning Assange. And not about Wikileaks or US hegemony or whatever else “kman” was blathering about. I think Ray himself has echoed this point.

    Any discussion about Assange is invariably linked to Wikileaks. Why else would we be talking about him? So he forgot to put on a condom? Or whatever the trumped up charge is. Big deal!

    Well I’m glad you acknowledge that it is a “trumped up charge” (although as yet there has been no charge laid). More concerning is that you don’t seem to think that this is a problem. You are quite happy to support fallacious criminal allegations if they can provide a means of the US getting its hands on Assange.

    Given that hack-boy is now holed up in the embassy of one of the most totalitarian regimes on the planet, where freedom of the press is a joke, it is rather ironic, isn’t it?

    It would be ironic if it were true, but it is baloney. Ecuador is a representative democracy, a long way from being considered totalitarian. And although Correa has been accused of hounding some independent journalists, the country still has more than 300 independent media outlets and, in South American terms at least, is considered to be quite liberal. Much like your Muirhead rant, this assessment of Ecuador is devoid of other knowledge or research. Do you just make up facts to support your political leanings?

  31. kman says:

    This thread is about the legalities and issues relating to Assange’s extradition. That’s what I came here to discuss.
    Assange, asylum, pizzas, AFL and boat people.

    Is that so? Then Brian you may want to tell that to Richard Ryan on August 17, 2012 at 4:47 pm who said:
    “Yeah that video showed the Americans in a bad light, the mowing down of those unarmed people in Iraq—and they enjoyed the killing too, it’s in the Yanks genes—-the killing of the bison, after that, the original inhabitants of that continent—they just love killing. I think it’s to do with all the inter-breeding with the Europeans.”

    Another American hater of the worst kind who I wanted to enlighten re those “Yankee killing genes”.Yet another product of Australian socialist education departments and leftist media.

    .”As for your US ‘diatribe’, the reason I called it that is because (a) it’s irrelevant to this issue (b) I don’t need an education from you on the importance of the US to world security.”

    It’s not all about you sport, and it is not irrelevent because it is the very heart of the matter concerning Assange and Wikileaks and his hacker attacks on US diplomatic and defence sites, this according to your very own thread – it’s all about the US seeking his extradition because of Wikileaks hacking.

    And I posted this “diatribe” to enlighten those who like Brian and especially Ryan who sees Americans as “loving killing” and believe that that the US is not important and the only garantour of our security, which it appears is shared by an awful ot of people in this country who have no clue of just what the real world is really all about.

    “Overall I don’t rate his life expectancy to be particularly long and it disgust me that the Australian government on the grounds of political expediency and protecting political careers refuses to assist an Australian citizen and protect them against the predations of the worlds greatest terrorist state. ”
    All read Matt’s post above who I am sure believes the CIA brought down the Twin Towers, it really shows the depth of thought prevalent now in this country. And with this gem I rest my case.

    Oh Matt, you need to get going because you will be late for school!
    Good post GD. you are a breath of fresh air.

  32. Brian says:

    And I posted this “diatribe” to enlighten those who like Brian and especially Ryan who sees Americans as “loving killing” and believe that that the US is not important and the only garantour of our security, which it appears is shared by an awful ot of people in this country who have no clue of just what the real world is really all about.

    I can’t speak for Ryan, however I have expressed no views whatsoever in this thread about Australia’s relationship with the US, American hegemony or its relationship to global security. So I’ll thank you not to put words into my mouth, especially when they are extremist and offensive. If I want to give an opinion on the matter, then I will; I don’t need you to construct one on my behalf.

    A blowhard can usually be identified by their willingness to lecture others on how the world works. Congratulations, “kman”, you have donned the “I am a Blowhard” t-shirt.

  33. Ray Dixon says:

    My post is certainly about Assange and, given his profile, it’s understandable that people will also focus on the validity of his Wikileaks website, however, it is over-emotional (and plain irrational) to suggest that because he also runs Wikileaks (which has been condemned but not as yet outlawed), he should be subjected to extraordinary treatment over those stupid Swedish allegations of rooting without one on. GD is at least being honest about his willingness to overlook fair play here. That’s about the only point I’ll give him credit for.

  34. Richard Ryan says:

    The Twin Towers was an inside job——-it collapsed from within.

  35. kman says:

    “I can’t speak for Ryan, however I have expressed no views whatsoever in this thread about Australia’s relationship with the US, American hegemony or its relationship to global security. So I’ll thank you not to put words” into my mouth, especially when they are extremist and offensive. If I want to give an opinion on the matter, then I will; I don’t need you to construct one on my behalf.”

    Except the message I get very clearly from your post “Perhaps if you knew some of that history, “kman”, your perspective on our ‘great protector’ might be a little more balanced.”

    What you are saying loud and clear albeit sarcastically is that you don’t see America as our “great protector” so you are actually expressing a view on the subject.
    And I did not say that you see Americans as loving killing. I said “and especially Ryan who sees Americans as “loving killing”.

    “A blowhard can usually be identified by their willingness to lecture others on how the world works. Congratulations, “kman”, you have donned the “I am a Blowhard” t-shirt.”

    So it wasn’t you Brian who posted that, I kman know nothing of history and then launched in to a rant re Nixon and Vietnam etc.? If that isn’t lecturing me I don’t know what is.”.And take a look at that long lecturing rant to GD on Ecuador,Correa South America,Muirhead etc.etc.etc.Your are lecturing to GD Brian,m so I guess you should pick up a blowhard shirt for yourself too.

    Incidentally for all this threads ranting and raving conspiracy therories about extradition to the US.from Sweden.The US made no move towards extraditing Assange over WikiLeaks from Britain which is always keen to oblige US extradition requests -In fact much easier than Sweden.
    So why on earth not?
    Any more conspiracy theories on this anyone, re Mr.Innocent journalist, champion of free speech of the press,and everyone’s right to know every secret of western intelligence, versus the world’s Great Satan.?

  36. Brian says:

    What you are saying loud and clear albeit sarcastically is that you don’t see America as our “great protector”

    All you have done thus far, “kman”, is take short comments, then use them to extrapolate points of view that are ridiculously extreme. My views on the US, Assange, Wikileaks and probably a whole host of other issues differ from your own – but nor do I think Assange is a hero or that the US is a murderous Great Satan. That’s something you have invented yourself, either because you’re paranoid or just spoiling for a fight. And that’s why I have no intention getting bogged down in a prolonged debate with you.

  37. Ray Dixon says:

    It’s called shadow-boxing – i.e. fighting a shadow and landing no real blows.

  38. Brian says:

    And making no real sense, Ray.

  39. kman says:

    but nor do I think Assange is a hero or that the US is a murderous Great Satan. That’s something you have invented yourself, either because you’re paranoid or just spoiling for a fight. And that’s why I have no intention getting bogged down in a prolonged debate with you.

  40. kman says:

    ” nor do I think Assange is a hero or that the US is a murderous Great Satan. That’s something you have invented yourself, either because you’re paranoid or just spoiling for a fight. And that’s why I have no intention getting bogged down in a prolonged debate with you’

    Yeah I always spoil for a fight when I run in to those who piss me off with absurd conspiracy theories, especially when they are directed against the US. And as for paranoid? Where exactly did I say that you thought that Assange is a hero or that the US is a murderous Great Satan.? Show me.
    What I actually said was…

    “Any more conspiracy theories on this anyone” Note the “anyone” As for debating me?… Yeah right! All I get is selective indignation over something that you misread and have misqouted.

    Love the interplay though with you and your pal Ray, especially the “And making no real sense, Ray”

    Yeah you two are the only ones who make any real sense here, -really,especially the bits about ‘He has every right to attempt to avoid being railroaded into something that is a clear smokescreen. A trap. And the Brits are just going over-the-top with this. Let the US issue a warrant if they so desire and see if they can get extradtion directly on that basis. They can’t, because only Sweden will directly co-operate with them on this.”
    And where is the basis of this gem Ray? Green Left Weekly? Why will only Sweden co-operate with the US and not Britain which has the best relationship with the US than any country in the world,especially socialist Sweden, and for two as the US saves the Brits tens of billions of dollars every year on defence.

    Or this..”he should be subjected to extraordinary treatment over those stupid Swedish allegations of rooting without one on.” Just why are these allegations stupid? You know absolutely nothing for sure about this case and obviously the Swedes this he does. have something to answer for.You accuse me of saying Assange is guilty -which I haven’t yet you yourself say he is innocent.

    And for Richard Ryan
    .” The Twin Towers was an inside job——-it collapsed from within” Geez you really need to get some professional help, you are even worse than Ray and Brian with the conspiricy crap.

    That’s it for me with this thread I don’t want to bore you two geniuses with my “shadow boxing” with “stuff that makes no sense”.anymore,so I will leave it for you to post “stuff” you can both agree to.

  41. Brian says:

    You accuse me of saying Assange is guilty -which I haven’t yet you yourself say he is innocent.

    Where exactly does either Ray or myself say that?

    Try framing an argument on what people actually say, rather than what you think they’ve said, and you might be worth bothering with.

  42. Ray Dixon says:

    Why will only Sweden co-operate with the US and not Britain

    Something about the death penalty, I believe. I.E. England (and Australia) will not extradite people to face a possible death sentence. That might explain why the US hasn’t asked England directly.

  43. GD says:

    Brian said:

    Ecuador is a representative democracy, a long way from being considered totalitarian. And although Correa has been accused of hounding some independent journalists, the country still has more than 300 independent media outlets and, in South American terms at least, is considered to be quite liberal.

    Peter Hartcher, from the Fairfax media, writes that:

    Ecuador, under its President of the last five years, Rafael Correa, has become one of the world’s leading oppressors of free speech. Correa has appropriated, closed and intimidated many media outlets critical of his government.

    According to Reporters Without Borders, Ecuador has dropped from having the 56th freest press in the world to the 104th, lower than Kuwait and the Republic of the Congo.

    In one case, Correa ran a punitive libel suit that sentenced a journalist and three executives from the El Universo newspaper to three years in jail and fined them $42 million. The fine was greater than the newspaper’s worth.

    Hartcher continues:

    Even as Assange has been sheltering in the London embassy of Ecuador these last two months, the government of Ecuador has shut down six radio stations and two TV stations.

    Why are leftists so eager to support regimes that by anyone’s standards, defy human rights?

  44. Brian says:

    I see you subscribe to the “kman” school of strawman debate, “GD”.

    Let me remind you of your exact words:

    Given that hack-boy is now holed up in the embassy of one of the most totalitarian regimes on the planet, where freedom of the press is a joke, it is rather ironic, isn’t it?

    Either you have no idea what totalitarianism actually is, or you’re just taking the piss. Given your Muirhead effort, I’m leaning towards the former.

    Yes, Correa has persecuted some journalists who have been critical of him. That is not in dispute. But he’s done it through the courts; he hasn’t jailed or shot any of them. And the four people in the case cited by you were subsequently pardoned.

    Also, some nations you would probably cite as either important Western allies or shining examples of emergent democracies rank much, much lower in the RWB index than Ecuador – including India, Iraq and Afghanistan. Does that mean they are all totalitarian too?

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