For our friends of the left there is a rather strange disconnect between the heart and the mind when it comes to the social behaviour of our indigenous people. They seem to be willing to accept any sort of nonsense on the basis that its part of “traditional” culture and therefore beyond any sort of criticism. This seems very much to be the case when it comes to feuds that saw the south Australian government arranging convoys of buses to take people to safety or when a high profile AFL player is involved in serious violence that pertains to the pernicious culture of “payback”.
The concept of “payback” may have had some value in an older and more brutal epoch but we have to ask ourselves why it should be tolerated in the twenty-first century, for the minions of the left its considered a no brainer because they want to be so inclusive and accepting of indigenous culture however I just can’t see that the cultural practice and its endless cycle of violence should ever be acceptable. The question remains though how can this ancient practice be consigned to the dustbin of history?
As far as I can see there needs to be a two pronged approach, firstly the kid gloves have to come off and any instances of “pay back” should be universally condemned and punished to the full extent of the law, rather than being excused or ‘explained’ by those who are so vocal on indigenous issues. They have to find their voices and make it clear that the age of “payback” is over and secondly there needs to be some serious work done on education about what is acceptable behaviour and ways to resolve interpersonal conflicts in our modern culture in all of our schools the churches and our society in general.
Of course its a big ask to try to change a mindset of such long standing and I doubt that it can be achieved any time soon but there is no doubt that without taking those first few steps the destination will be forever unobtainable and there is no doubt that we need to get there.
- Liam Jurrah victim claims ‘he hit me with an axe’ (news.com.au)
- AFL player Liam Jurrah charged over attack (news.smh.com.au)
- AFL player Liam Jurrah granted bail (news.smh.com.au)
- Australian Footballer Requests Time Off For “Family Issues,” Attacks Cousin With A Machete [Australian Football] (deadspin.com)
You’re right that there are a lot of excuses being made for Jurrah’s alleged behaviour, Iain. But it’s not just coming from ‘the minions of the left’, as you put it.
Down here in Aussie Rules heartland nearly every tv, radio & newspaper commentator is talking about it as though Jurrah was ‘caught in two worlds’ and is as much a victim as the victim himself (the one who copped an axe in the head). Pathetic. And those commentators are basically a fairly conservative lot.
You might think there’s something political about all this but what you’ve overlooked is that Jurrah is from another ‘protected species’, other than aborigines. He’s a star AFL footballer and that status provides him with a mighty big support and defence basis. If he did the crime though, I’m sure he’ll do the time. I doubt the courts will be so lenient.
A storm in a tea-cup! For f%%k sake, Who care, really.
I care that certain sections of the community are treated differently based on the false notion that they have some unique connection to their heritage and therefore are exempt from normal rules and behaviour.
He’s been charged, GD. How is that “exempt”?
GD—– is playing the race card, or maybe the Pauline Hanson card——-but Abbott the mad monk took care of her—–now why does Hanson not spear him, say through one of his ear lobes. Whats normal rules and behaviour? For f##k sake.
What’s normal rules and behaviour? I would like to point out that the European settlers of Australia regarded the original inhabitants, the Aboriginal people as objects of pillage to be dispossessed of their land. For the settlers, the Aborigines were almost like a plant of fauna, something to uprooted and pushed out of the way.
Richard you are clearly ignorant of the history here or you have such a politically blinkered understanding of it that you can’t see the wood for the trees. In any event the important thing is that by any measure the concepts of blood feuds and “payback” violence has NO place in twenty first century Australia.
But thanks for being a good example of the very mindset that I refereed to in the article I really appreciate you stepping forward on that one 😉
OH YES! Where would the Aboriginal be today without the Christian, loving, compassion helpful white-man? ALIVE-ALIVE HO.
As bad as life might be now in some of the more dissolute remote settlements where grog and nihilism rule, the indigenous culture before the coming of the white man was not really that much better, forced marriage of young girls to old men, brutality at every level when it came to customary law, Yep it was a delightful idyll for all and sundry.
Take of the leftist coloured glasses and have a realistic look at the culture and lifestyle and it ceases to be all that rosy no matter how long it managed to endure and no matter how many other aspects of the culture, like the deep and abiding respect for nature, remain admirable today
AFL geared up for 2012, Will this season be the same, with news media and sports media articles last season largely about Australian Rules AFL players involved in illegal drugs, women bashing, fights, drunk driving are just some.
The start of the AFL season we already have this blog about Liam Jurrah, but already another bashing in todays media, where a Collingwood AFL player inolved in an early morning drunken bashing. Sure it happens in other Australian KickBall codes but its largely and continuous with AFL players.
What needs to be done to stop this continuous anti-social behavior by AFL players.
Roman, fancy meeting you here. To answer you: What needs to be done is the same that needs to be done to stop anti-social behaviour by young men in the wider community. Unless you have some proof that there is a higher proportion of anti-social behaviour among AFL players, then you are just targeting them because you have a bent against the game. On the contrary, I think you’ll find that the AFL keeps statistics on such incidents (a sort of ‘black file’ on its 700 or so registered players) and can prove to you conclusively that the percentage of anti-social incidents among AFL players is much lower than in the general community. I suggest you start @ afl.com.au where you’ll find a contact page. I’m also sure they’ll be happy to provide you with the information.
Replay to Ray Dixon
AFL anti-social behaviour compared with other KickBall codes and not compared with the community.
Ray you may be ignorant of AFL players, they are a high anti-social group. With media reports. And you say “percentage of anti-social incidents among AFL players is much lower than in the general community”.
Ray, I was not comparing AFL players with the general community; I was comparing AFL players as the Australian KickBall codes (as stated) and their anti-social behaviour as a KickBall group, I repeat, not compared with the “general community”.
For at least the last two years, the Victoian Herald Sun during the AFL season, there has been a concerning amount of AFL player involved in illegal drugs, women bashing or brawls etc.
Even now within about 9 days, the Jurrah issue, the early morning drunken bashing involving a Collingwood player and the concern for AFL players gambling problems, a notable amount of negetive news on AFL players already.
Gambling AFL’s top problem
March 08 2012 3:37 PM
North Melbourne coach Brad Scott
“The thing that concerns me most about young AFL footballers is problem gambling, I put it well ahead of drug abuse or alcohol abuse.”
“I’ve got concerns about all AFL players,” Scott added, when asked whether he had specific issues with members of his own playing squad when it came to problem gambling.
“If you do go and talk to the experts about problem gambling, our players are right in that mix.”
Ray if you do know about this so-called statistics on anti-social incidents among AFL players please send me direct link, I could not find anything at afl.com.au; if there is such a link.
Sounds like a self regulated “black file” (as you say) of registered AFL players.
But we know how self regulation can work, self regulation can make Gaddafi or Hussein look good, if they were alive.
Some AFL fans believe “AFL kicks off” the season!
I hope you believe its a toss-up, ball-up or the bounch-up that starts the AFL season, AFL fans should get to know some facts like, 1.7 million registered football players in Australian heaps more than Australian Rules registered players.
And the last time I saw Australian Rules as a most popular played Australian Sport it was in at 5th. The AFL survives on B***Sh** because it has the money to spend on B***Sh** they are fooling most Victorians, thats my issue with AFL.
Roman, Roman, Roman, stop ranting & raving please. Calm down. Now, the reason you don’t see a lot of reports on the indiscretions commited by soccer players in the H-Sun is … guess what? It’s not so newsworthy. Soccer doesn’t rate and sell papers like AFL does. Geddit? The HS likes to blow up AFL indiscretions because they know it’s more popular in terms of reader interest.
As for the stats on such indiscretions, I referred you to afl.com.au and their contact page. Did you send them an email and request that information? Because it wouldn’t be on their website but if you asked nicely (can you ask nicely, Roman?) I’m sure that Mr Demetriou or Mr Anderson will gladly advise you of their statistics on the percentage of AFL players involved in anti-social behaviour. And I’m equally sure that you’ll find it is far less than the proportion of such incidents in the wider community. That’s because all AFL clubs have programs and counsel their players against such actions. Of course a few will still offend, but that is life.
You are making a case out of hot air and out of what you read in the headlines but, think, Roman, think. The AFL is not some den of misogony and drunkeness that you want to convince yourself it is. They’re just young guys who need guidance. Thankfully they’ll get it too. Either that or they’ll be delisted. That’s how it goes.
PS: Don’t bother asking the A League the same questions. Firstly, they are so unprofessional that they wouldn’t know what their players are up to. Secondly, they’re too pre-occupied fighting amongst themselves. Witness Frank Lowy and Clive Palmer – battle of the arrogant, wealthy f*ckwits. Cheers and lighten up.
As usual Ray when your stuck for answers you panic, lead away from the original issue and tell, to stop ranting and raving, to calm down!
Ray, you get miss leading and confused eg, comparing AFL anti-social behaviour with the general community, when in fact I stated AFL anti-social behaviour with Australian ‘KickBall’ codes, not the general community, Ray.
I have shown you proof of recent drunken bashings involving AFL player, gambling problems among AFL players as told by AFL coach, the Jurrah issue. All AFL player within the last 9 days that have been in the media.
You say, “The HS likes to blow up AFL indiscretions because they know it’s more popular in terms of reader interest”.
‘The HS likes to blow up AFL indiscretions’ women bashing, illegal drugs etc. You poor chap Ray, you are saying only AFL players make Anti-social HS news, when other KickBall codes and their players who might do, women bashing, illegal drugs etc. Ray is saying, because the thugs are not AFL players it’s not news worthy for the HS!
Ray, you are full of hot air.
GIVE ME SOME NEWS RELATING TO OTHER AUSTRALIAN KICKBALL CODES, REPORTS ON THEIR CONTINUOUS ANTI-SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR – Give me some meat mate, not sh!t.
Just getting away (for you Ray, you need to…) from the real issue of AFL anti-social behaviour. Australian Football the A-League with ‘NZ’, in operation only for about 6 years with increasing crowds, more TV viewers, more members, a women’s interstate competition league (more football facts for you Ray) more play football than Australian Rules, football has it’s Australian national representative teams U16s, U18s, U21s including girl’s Australian national teams too, along side, with the senior men’s and women’s Australian teams, Yeah it’s a big operation for Federation Football Australia.
If only just a twinkle for the AFL ‘All Australian Team’, not even NZ…!
BWT, agree with you Ray together with 99.99% of Australian Football fans that Clive Palmer is unprofessional and a wealthy F*ckwit; there are a lot of wealthy F*ckwits around, Gina Rinehart for another one.
Roman, your assertion is based on nothing more than a few incidents reported in the newspapers, but you need facts and stats not innuendo to make a case. That’s why I referred you to the AFL – they’ll have that info, but it’s not up to me to find it for you. Come back when you’ve got some facts that prove AFL players are more anti-social than EITHER the general community OR Soccer players (if, as it seems, you think soccer players are not part of the general community).
It sounds like constant (during AFL season) reports, especially in the last two AFL seaons and already three anti-social behoviour just recently within days by AFL players. Involved in anti-social behaviour reported in the HS, TV and radio media, these facts are not good enough Ray!
When nearly all other Victoians have heard about it in the various media. *I don’t need the AFL (afl.com.au ‘contact us’) to tell me their bull sh!t, the facts are in the Victorian media.
It’s reasonible to say that you Ray, have not heard anything regarding continuous anti-social behaviour by other Australian KickBall codes, but there has been a larger amount of anti-social behaviour regarding AFL players (recently 3 in a few days). Its in our faces, Ray.
Ray your confused again:- …I did’nt ask you to find out, I asked you to send me the link you were referring to, but its seem you do not have it. But I don’t care for it any more, as explained above*
^^Ray, please Ray try to understand, and again, I am comparing Australian ‘KickBall’ codes their PLAYERS regarding anti-social behaviour by Australian KickBall code players.
A person that does ‘not’ play Rugby Union, Ruby League, A-League Football or Australian Rules AFL is not part of the Australian ‘KickBall’ code as a player.
It obvious that you find it very difficult to understand, may I suggest you get someone to explain it to you. Someone not related to you.
I recall a football A-league coach in Sydney was pulled over, and exceeded the alcohol limit while driving about four years ago ‘but’ he wasn’t a football player (though you might argue against this), and there was the rugby league team (with womans consent) gang-banging this was about two years, nothing compared to the continuous anti-social behaviour by AFL players.
I am trying to help you!
Sorry if you don’t accept what you read or hear in the Vitorian media about AFL anit-social behaviour, but you are ignorant to the matter. Its in our faces, Ray.
May I suggest again, that you ask someone to explain certain matters regarding this comment^^
You’re right, Roman, those “facts” (newspaper stories) do not prove your assertion. They only prove that the media pays the AFL and its players a lot of attention.
I understand that, Roman, but:
a) You don’t have any stats on anti-social behaviour for soccer players either so how can you compare the two codes that way?
b) My response was the correct one – i.e. to suggest that the AFL could prove to you that the incidence of anti-social behaviour among its 700 or so players is actually less than the incidence among the same age group in the general community (which FYI includes soccer players).
And I’m not responsible for your failure to work out how to contact the AFL and ask them to provide the stats. I gave you the lead and you failed to follow it. And if you don’t trust the AFL to give correct information then I suggest you contact Victoria Police or Crimestoppers. If you do enough research, Roman, you might be able to find the facts that support your contention that AFL players are more involved in anti-social incidents than soccer players are. But I doubt the evidence will support that so I guess that’s why you prefer to use the media sensationalising these events as your “proof”.
Anyway, if in the very unlikely event you are right that AFL players are more violent and agressive, maybe that’s because they have far more testosterone than soccer players do. After all, soccer is the Mums’ preferred sport choice for their little boys.
Chew on that.
Ignorant Ray says ” Anyway, if in the very unlikely event you are right that AFL players are more violent and agressive, maybe that’s because they have far more testosterone than soccer players do. After all, soccer is the Mums’ preferred sport choice for their little boys. Chew on that “. Yea “Anyway” Ray lol.
Ooooo Raymond, your now using ” AFL players are more violent and agressive” what happened to anti-social behaviour.
It is not violent and agressive Ray, when a AFL player had sex in the toilets with his captain’s wife at a club function, thats anti-social, thats not violent and agressive Ray, you do like confusing yourself.
As well if an AFL player has sex with an under aged school girls, thats not violent and agressive, its anti-social, against the law, Ray.
More testosterone or more illegal drugs! Your such a ignorant boy Ray, with your comments trying to justify AFL players (more common with) anti-social behaviour in Australian’s world of KickBall codes.
Here are yet more facts about Autralian football Ray, more Australians between the age of 15 to 25 or 30 (not mums’ boys) are registered players, between that age group (last stats I looked at) thats more then the total number of Australian Rules players registered in Australia, (thats how big football is in Australia, Ray) this again shows how ignorant you are about Australian football.
I have taught you alot, facts about Australian Football haven’t I, Ray (but in and out both ears or in and out of one ear because it can’t get through!).
You still are making yourself look even more sillier each time, running around in circles, like a chook without a head and a brain on this issue. Your even like the AFL, full of bull ####.
I tell you what, Roman, when you play football, be it the mummy-boy round ball or the man’s game of Aussie rules, there is one golden rule – play the ball and not the man. Calling me “ignorant”, saying I’m “like a chook without a head and a brain” and that I’m full of “bullshit” is playing the man, Roman. I don’t respond to arguments (no matter how easily refuted they may be) when they are framed that way. I’ll think about coming back later. If I can be bothered.
Okay, Roman, this is my final rebuttal. I won’t respond any further – regardless of how abusive you become – unless you produce actual statistics that support your contention that AFL players are involved in more anti-social incidents than soccer players and/or the general community.
Firstly, I’m not “confused” about the distinction between violent and agressive behaviour and just anti-social behaviour. However, violent and agressive behaviour is also anti-social and, as the incident that sparked this debate concerns an alleged axe attack, I think it’s appropriate to include that, don’t you?
Your reference to an AFL player having “sex with an under aged school girls” is mystifying. There are not even any reports of that occuring. As for your “facts” about more boys playing soccer today than Aussie Rules that is neither disputed or relevant to this topic or even to your own contention. I’m well aware that soccer is widely participated in – so what? More people play golf than Aussie Rules & Soccer combined. And cycling is fast becoming the nation’s most popular sporting activity. But AFL is still the most popular sport & football code among the paying & viewing public and looks like staying that way well into the future. I’m not sure what your point is or how it’s relevant to the argument.
Now, as I said earlier, you have produced nothing but anecdotal news reports of a few ugly incidents involving (in a lot of cases) little known Aussie Rules footballers involved in anti-social behaviour (Jurrah being an exception – he’s well known). They get reported because anything that happens in the AFL makes news. Big news. But, if a rookie A League soccer player got picked up for drunk driving the papers wouldn’t even bother to report it – because it’s small potatos. So your “facts” amount to no proof of your biased assertion at all. You are clearly just out to stir the pot with your pro-soccer agenda. I mean, look at you gravatar!
Anyway, I repeat, no more from me on this until you get the stats. Which means this is the end of our debate, I reckon.
Raymond you say “…when you play football, be it the mummy-boy round ball or the man’s game of Aussie rules, there is one golden rule – play the ball and not the man”.
In Aussie Rules you do mostly play (attacking) the man Raymond (round ball lol, Raymond your a pathetic mummies boy! you should be abused being so silly).
In football Raymond, you play the ball, and if you play the man you can get send-off the pitch and penalized. Football is a different game to Aussie Rules, Aussie Rules is more similar to League.
In Aussie Rules your pulled by the jersey, thrown around to the ground or get the sense knocked out of you, just like Raymond is, in this debate.
Your the real mummies-boy Raymond, can’t take it like a Aussie Rules man! You are so very ignorant in this case, You don’t know what your talking about.
The only sport you may know about is only Aussie Rules, you even called the football pitch as being ‘square’ on your own home blog page.
(1) Raymond you say “However, violent and agressive behaviour is also anti-social and, as the incident that sparked this debate concerns an alleged axe attack”
Of cause it is Raymond, I totally agree! But (there is a line) in the contents of this debate e.g for you again Raymond.
Just today, Bendigo an Aussie Rules official was charged/or being charged with sexually abusing 9 boys over a period, young boys who play Aussie Rules under 16 year old. Now I feel that is a violent and aggressive crime. Where as the AFL player having sex with his captain’s wife in the toilets is not a violent and agressive crime, but I would say, its anti-social behaviour, it needs a more harsh description as violent and aggressive, Raymond.
You do understand don’t you? you just need to get me abusive at you, in this debate, is showing how ignorant and childish you are being. In this debate, AFL players are more Anti-Social in behaviour then other Australian KickBall codes.
(2) Raymond you say “Your reference to an AFL player having “sex with an under aged school girls” is mystifying. There are not even any reports of that occuring”
It’s mystifying for you Raymond! I said if a AFL player…! I was comparing anti-social behaviour with your words as you described AFL players or player as violent and aggressive. But references in the Victorian medai where made to underage sex, it makes one wonder, what else! Did the AFL pay her money (or who did) and gave her accommodations, AFL male in his underwear….!
And remember you tried to relate away from the subject that, ‘AFL players have more anti-social behaviour then other Australian KickBall codes’.
But to your insistence with your words to say that, AFL players have less anti-social behaviour then the general community. When actually along the lines:- AFL player have more anti-social behaviour then other AUSTRALIAN KICKBALL CODES.
(3) Raymond you say “As for your “facts” about more boys playing soccer today than Aussie Rules that is neither disputed or relevant to this topic or even to your own contention. I’m well aware that soccer is widely participated in – so what? More people play golf than Aussie Rules & Soccer combined”
Yes Raymond and don’t forget netball to, more people play netball than Aussie Rules and Football. But Raymond more people play Football then Australian Rules much more! And the Australian registered age group playing football between 15 – 25/30 (last time I looked at stats) is more than the totally registered player that play Australian Rules in Australia, Raymond
(4) Raymond you say “But AFL is still the most popular sport & football code among the paying & viewing public and looks like staying that way well into the future”
Yes Raymond in that category (more view Rugby League on TV than Australian Rules). Football, League and Rugy Union are major growing sports in Melbourne/Victoria as interstate competition, all less than 8 years old in operation. Melbourne people had nothing or hardly nothing to go and watch (then) other then Aussie Rules on a Saturday afternoons for over a hundred years. Now football in less than 8 years is growing in all areas and so is rugby league and a smaller interest in Union but still getting crowds.
Melbourne has more then just Aussie Rules now Raymond. I believe Victoria was called the ‘Sporting State’ once, lols, Aussie Rules State, yes!
(5) Raymond you say “They get reported because anything that happens in the AFL makes news. Big news. But, if a rookie A League soccer player got picked up for drunk driving the papers wouldn’t even bother to report it – because it’s small potatos”
But Raymond it was reported on. In the Victorian media, and it was not a rookie A-League footballer, was a coach of Sydney FC or Newcastle Jets football team, you do get confused Raymond.
Yes Raymond AFL “Big news” about AFL players having more anti-social behaviour than another Australian KickBall code, is that why you read about the AFL!
(6) Raymond you say “I repeat, no more from me on this until you get the stats. Which means this is the end of our debate, I reckon”
You want me to get AFL stats Raymond.
Here are Victorian news media stats Raymond, already AFL players within 9 days this month have hit the Victorian news media for anti-social behaviour.
An AFL player in the early morning drunken brawl, problem AFL players gambling, AFL player involved what is to be believed a serious attack
on another human being.
I too, should get away from AFL players anti-social behaviour in relation with Australian KickBall codes, in this case, this is a violent and aggressive behaviour.
Today in the media Raymond, in Bendigo an Aussie Rule official sexually abused insulted 9 young underaged boys that belong to this Aussie Rules Club.
And you would stats from the AFL – Well Raymond open you bloody eyes, its in you face, but like the AFL you are looking away!