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Juliar’s Carr Crash

I have to say that after the last week in Australian politics I really did not think  things could get worse, but of course as we are talking about the ALP I was totally wrong:

Click for source

Sorry dear readers but the chorus of this song came immediately to mind:

Can you tell that I am enjoying yet another instance of a Labor stuff up?

Surely they can’t get worse?

Well maybe they can!

Cheers Comrades

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49 Comments

  1. Leon Bertrand says:

    Poor Julia Gillard. Every coupple of weeks she stuffs up again. Her bounce from her ballot victory over Kevin Rudd has lasted less than 48 hours, and she has now endured yet another embarassment.

    There’s a part of me that really feels sorry for her.

    The decisive caucus ballot shows that Labor will not re-elect Rudd as leader. Given that is the case, it’s time for them to look around for someone else in my view.

  2. Richard Ryan says:

    Strange! Everyone singing from the same hymn book as usual—–Bolt-Blair, and of course Akerman, who use to pour mealy mouthed bile on Carr, on a regular basis, when he was Premier.

  3. Ray Dixon says:

    What everyone seems to be missing is that, if Gillard was involved in Carr being offered the position last week, that means she knew about Arbib’s ‘resignation’, well before the ballot on Monday of this week. And it means Arbib was given his marching orders. I wonder what ‘dirt’ they had on him to force him to resign? He wouldn’t have walked away from that salary (and thereby forfeit the lucrative parliamentary pension) unless there was something being held over him. The guy is only 40 and has a young family – what does he do for a crust now?

    Anyway, Iain, I’m happy for you to play this up and delight in yet another Gillard blunder. I’m even more happy that Abbott & co are doing it too. You’re all just hastening her demise and making the caucus realise they backed the wrong donkey on Monday. It plays right into Rudd’s hands. So you really think Abbott can beat Rudd when he (as sure as night follows day) is drafted back in?

  4. Craigy says:

    Ray….Arbib……Stratfor?

    Just saying……..

  5. Ray Dixon says:

    Stratfor, Craigy? No, I think any dirt the ALP might have on Arbib would be a lot ‘dirtier’ than that, if you get my drift. Think credit cards. Think escorts. Just speculating of course. Does he know Craig Thomson?

  6. Craigy says:

    At least while the ALP eats itself, ‘The Greens’ continue to look like the only party with any unity and Bob brown as the only truly secure and respected leader….just saying.

  7. Ray Dixon says:

    I don’t see the Greens benefitting out of this, Craigy. Those disaffected ALP voters made the shift @ the 2010 election. The polls since then clearly indicate that Labor is losing voters to the Libs, due to Gillard’s performance. The Greens vote is static at best and appears to have peaked. These events tend to polarise people to one of the 2 majors, not to minor fringe groups like the Greens.

  8. Craigy says:

    Thanks not what I said Ray, I was talking about a secure leader with his party unified behind him…..We will see at the election how the Greens go, my tip is they can only increase their vote.

  9. Ray Dixon says:

    (That’s) not what I said ……

    So you weren’t predicting that the Greens would benefit from the ALP’s problems, Craigy?

    We will see at the election how the Greens go, my tip is they can only increase their vote.

    Oh, so you were predicting that!

  10. Craigy says:

    No I wasn’t predicting that the Greens would benefit from the ALP’s perceived problems Ray, I was saying that they are benefiting by having a secure and respected leader.

    I am predicting an increase in support given their good standing and the unity inside the party along with getting their policy platform up and some other things.

    The Greens are not tarnished by the PR failure of the ALP or by their leadership problems.

    It is possible that even more progressive ALP voters will move to the principled and honest party that is the Australian Greens, as they see their policy positions succeed and begin to understand how the smears from the press and the major parties have no substance.

  11. I note that Craigy has described the Greens as principled and honest.

    The Greens are a party that doesn’t allow the media into its own conferences.

    The Greens are a party that blames coal companies for the QLD floods.

    The Greens are a party that pretends that it is for freedom of expression but which wants to muzzle “the hate media” ie media critical of them.

    The Greens are a party that thinks that moving to renewable energy is good for the economy.

    The Greens are a party who deny that the policies they advocate have caused boat people deaths.

    The Greens are a party that condemns Tony Abbott for standing behind offensive placards of the PM but whose representatives often attend and speak at rallies with signs that are equally offensive.

    The Greens are a party whose NSW division tried to hide the fact that they support boycotting Israel.

    The Greens are a party who condemns Andrew Bolt for noting that their policies have caused boatpeople deaths, but who were quick to blame the coal industry for the QLD floods.

  12. craigy says:

    So childish Leon. And a typical attempt to smear the successful Greens. I guess you hate John Howard and the liberal party for killing boat people as well. As people were killed trying to get here on their watch. It’s as stupid as blaming Garrett for deaths installing pink batts. The rest of your poor attack is just the views of an unbalanced wingnut and not surprising. Your love of all things said by the discredited typist Bolt is telling. I suggest you get your opinions from someone with credibility.

  13. Iain Hall says:


    Craigy

    Leon is right about the Greens, they are fine until any of their number gets anywhere near the levers of power and then they all seem to have a rush to the head and descend into a maniacal madness that destroys all of their reason, They are the ones who are unbalanced and full of misanthropic dreams of genocide so that they can ensure that Gay whales can get the land right that the Greens are so sure that they deserve.
    Photobucket

    (sarcasm off)

  14. Ray Dixon says:

    No I wasn’t predicting that the Greens would benefit from the ALP’s perceived problems Ray, I was saying that they are benefiting by having a secure and respected leader.

    That’s the same thing, Craigy. You’re saying people will now vote Greens because the ALP has instability and their leader is not respected (or lacks credibility), whereas the Greens leader is “secure & respected”. I agree that the ALP is both those things, but that won’t necessarily convert into votes for the Greens. As I pointed out, the Greens picked up a lot of disaffected ALP supporters in 2010 but the ground the ALP has lost since then has gone to the Libs and there’s no reason to think those people will now suddenly switch to the Greens or that the remaining ALP voters will do likewise. You see, a lot of ALP voters are just not interested in what the Greens have to say.

  15. Richard Ryan says:

    ON the subject of Andrew Bolt——himself and Murdoch, seem to have parted, surgery may longer be required as his mate Murdoch looks like leaving the scene. Bolt seems to be having a hissy fit over there on his blog of pure bile.

  16. Leon Bertrand says:

    Unbelieveable.

    I give Craigy a long long list of concrete examples of when the Greens have been less than principled and honest, and he describes me as ‘childish’ and ‘typical’.

    There’s no reasoning with some people.

  17. Craigy says:

    It’s not the same at all Ray…..And not all new Greens support comes from disaffected ALP voters. I can tell you that many young people at the place I work, most of whom will be voting for the first time at the next election, are looking very closely at the performance of the leaders of the major parties and like what they see in Bob and the Greens.

    Leon, there is nothing ‘concrete’ about repeating false Andrew Bolt talking points.

    How can I ‘reason’ with Bolt’s misquotes and straight out lies. Anyway, my views are my own, perhaps you should learn to think for yourself at some stage, when you get a bit older perhaps.

    The only one of your (Bolt’s) ‘list’ that has any substance is the closed party conferences, which the Greens are reviewing and have acknowledged will change in the future. Closed conferences doesn’t change the fact that they are travelling much better than any of your sides predictions of their failure and doom, that has been screaming off the pages of News Ltd rags since the last election.

    What you both fail to acknowledge are the long list of achievements that the Greens are racking up, their stable and respected leadership and the 14% of people who voted for them last time that have had no reason to leave or return to the failing major parties.

  18. Ray Dixon says:

    Craigy, I’m not surprised that “many young people at the place you work” would be Greens supporters. You’re talking students, right?

  19. Craigy says:

    Yes Ray, smart, motivated and between 20 and 30 mostly…..

    Look , I see you don’t like the Greens and want to talk down their support but 14% of voters, give or take a few percent, vote Green now and they don’t look like going the way of the Dem’s or One Nation any time soon……The only way is up if they keep performing.

    Of course ALP voters like you may want to continue and try and blame the PR failure on the Greens but I think it’s time for ALP supporters to see the light. The move to the right has failed and the ALP should take a leaf out of the Greens book and get back to delivering the progressive policies that its traditional base will vote for.

    The ALP should stop trying to out Tony Tony and give people something other than ‘conservative’ or ‘conservative light’ to vote for or they will keep bleeding votes.

  20. Ray Dixon says:

    Craigy, where do you get your 14% of voters from? At the 2010 election the Greens received 11.76% of the primary vote, which was up 3.97% on the previous one. And nearly all those extra votes came from disaffected ALP voters (down 5.4%). That’s my point – you’ve already grabbed as many ALP voters as you ever will, and the further swing away is going to the Libs, not to the Greens, as the opinion polls clearly indicate.

    I’m not “talking them down” or (even more ludicrous) “blaming” the ALP’s woes on the Greens. I blame Gillard and her inner circle of dickheads for that. I am putting their support and performance in its rightful context, whereas you are certainly talking them up way beyond their level of support and achievement.

    The move to the right has failed and the ALP should take a leaf out of the Greens book and get back to delivering the progressive policies that its traditional base will vote for.

    Which ones, Craigy? Carbon tax? Done that. National Broadband Network? Well underway. Gay marriage? Underway – slowly, the way it should be. Mining tax? Done that. Pokies reform? Underway – more sensibly too. Maybe you mean they should spend $100 billion on a Very Fast Train link between Melbourne, Sydney & Brisbane? Brilliant! And do you seriously suggest the ALP should deliver policies dictated by a small minority of between 10 and 12%? Give me a break – the Greens do not have any policies that are more progressive. They just jump on the bandwagon of some ideas and policies already put forward by the majors. And then they claim credit for stuff they didn’t invent!

  21. Iain Hall says:

    Craigy

    Of course ALP voters like you may want to continue and try and blame the PR failure on the Greens but I think it’s time for ALP supporters to see the light. The move to the right has failed and the ALP should take a leaf out of the Greens book and get back to delivering the progressive policies that its traditional base will vote for.

    I think that you make a fundamental mistake here, namely you seem to think that everything has to be constantly changing for our society to be “good” there are lots of things that work just fine thank you very much and if we change them just for the sake of change then the odds are that the result will be far from beneficial. Its the old “progressive fallacy” that both the far left and the far right are both prone to. In this day and age when something can be the new thing on a Monday and obsolete by Friday its even worse than it was in times gone by when the cycle of change was more relaxed.

  22. Ray Dixon says:

    Whoa, Iain, the gloating of Abbott et al (and your post) just got whacked for 6:

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/bob-carr-to-take-foreign-affairs-role-20120302-1u731.html

    Hmm, this means Gillard’s re-exerted her authority over the so-called faceless men. Mind you, I also think it means she plotted to get rid of Arbib. Then again, most people would have to agree that it’s better to have Carr in the Senate than Arbib – good riddance to him.

    So it looks like she’s come out ahead on this. Don’t worry … her next slip up is just around the corner. It always is.

  23. Iain Hall says:

    Well She has certainly stuffed up this whole appointment and its still another example of Gillard’s ineptitude as an administrator.

  24. Ray Dixon says:

    It’s messy for sure, Iain, but it’s a case of ‘the ends justifying the means’, I reckon. Gillard looks a winner here because, let’s face it, she replaced a sleaze with a statesman AND she won out against the ‘faceless men’. That’s how the plebs out there will see it. She’ll get a rise in her approval rating out of this but it will be short lived.

  25. Craigy says:

    Ray, the last poll I saw had the Greens at 14%…..(I may be behind with the current figures).

    In my view,the ALP policies you quote, like a price on carbon and the mining tax, don’t go anywhere near far enough, the ALP know this but are poll driven and weak in the face of corporate PR campaigns….The Greens have been pointing this out. Treatment of asylum seekers is still a disgrace and much more needs to be done to drive investment in clean energy….

    You have totally ignored the thousands of new voters that will vote at the next election (that I have pointed out above) and the impact on future voting following the current poor show from the major parties and the good performance of the Greens in contrast.

    Iain

    “I think that you make a fundamental mistake here, namely you seem to think that everything has to be constantly changing for our society to be “good” there are lots of things that work just fine thank you very much and if we change them just for the sake of change then the odds are that the result will be far from beneficial.”

    Um, no Iain, I actually agree with all you say in this comment. Where did you get the view that I am calling to fix what isn’t broken?

  26. Ray Dixon says:

    Okay, Craigy, I’ll leave you alone and let you have your ‘Green Dreams’. I hope they’re not wet ones mate – it’s been pissing down up here.

  27. Craigy says:

    Okay Ray, tis a bit damp down here as well….Cheers.

  28. Richard Ryan says:

    Bob Carr: Now it’s all the way——with the USA. For F##k Sake.

  29. Richard Ryan says:

    Sorry Bob Carr, “Don’t meet this cunning monk” Silly Me, I thought you were commenting on Tony Abbott, the mad monk, who thinks he will be the next PM of Australia.

  30. Hate to break it to you Richard but it appears that Abbott will be Australia’s next elected PM.

  31. Iain Hall says:

    Leon I think that Richard just needs to be in denial of that simple fact.

  32. Craigy says:

    Well if your attacks are as off as your predictions Iain, then the very unpopular Abbott may miss out or be dumped for the more popular Turnbull……Long way to go yet boys.

  33. Ray Dixon says:

    They won’t dump Abbott while Gillard is still PM, Craigy. Even Chrissy Pyne could beat her. Even Andrew Robb or Joe Hockey. The only way the Libs could lose to Gillard is if they made Sophie leader. Even then, it’d be close.

  34. Ray Dixon says:

    (Btw, imagine Sophie Mirabella as PM – it’d be hilarious)

  35. Iain Hall says:

    Thanks even I don’t want that image in my head Ray!

  36. Richard Ryan says:

    Tony Abbott will never become leader of this country—-karma won’t allow it.

  37. craigy says:

    I don’t know Ray, it’s still a long way to go and I don’t put it past Tony to stuff things up. He does have foot in mouth issues.

    The ALP seem on an up with Swan’s very good article in the monthly that rings very true in the current climate. Also catching the wingnut typists and bloggers out with the Carr appointment was a nice win for them. I wish them luck.

  38. Iain Hall says:

    Craigy,
    Mate you have confirmation bias issues I think!

    The ALP seem on an up with Swan’s very good article in the monthly that rings very true in the current climate. Also catching the wingnut typists and bloggers out with the Carr appointment was a nice win for them. I wish them luck.

    The person with egg on their face about the appointment of Bob Carr is Gillard, in particular and Labor in general The former because she did a saint Peter about the job for Carr and the latter because they are so lacking in guts or talent that they could not fill the vacancy from within their ranks.

  39. Iain Hall says:

    This is hot from my in-box from my mate Wayne

    Dear Iain,

    Australia has always prided itself on being a nation that’s more equal than most – a place where if you work hard, you can create a better life for yourself and your family.

    But the fair go has never been guaranteed: it’s something we’ve always had to fight for. And Labor has always been there, leading the charge.

    Today in a speech at the National Press Club and in an essay published in the current edition of The Monthly, I argue Australia’s fair go is under threat from the rising power of vested interests. A small number of elites increasingly feel they have a right to bend the nation’s future to satisfy their own self-interest.

    We see this most obviously in the ferocious campaign waged by the likes of Gina Rinehart, Clive Palmer and Andrew Forrest against the Minerals Resource Rent Tax.

    This has been supported by an Opposition that’s all too willing to kneel down at the feet of the vested interests, rather than stand up for the interests of Australian workers.

    Thankfully, the interests of ordinary Australians have not yet been drowned out by the desires of a well-funded, noisy handful.

    Labor is implementing critical reforms like the MRRT that ensure all Australians receive a fair return from the resources they own.

    Wayne

    But lets break down the claims in this email shall we?

    Dear Iain,

    Don’t we all love the faux familiarity possible with modern email mailing lists?

    Australia has always prided itself on being a nation that’s more equal than most – a place where if you work hard, you can create a better life for yourself and your family.

    Yep I believe in mother hood too

    But the fair go has never been guaranteed: it’s something we’ve always had to fight for. And Labor has always been there, leading the charge.

    The problem comes though about what is actaully fair doesn’t it and on that count Labor have NOT always been that flash…

    Today in a speech at the National Press Club and in an essay published in the current edition of The Monthly, I argue Australia’s fair go is under threat from the rising power of vested interests. A small number of elites increasingly feel they have a right to bend the nation’s future to satisfy their own self-interest.

    I tend to agree about vested interests but I don’t just look to the ranks of business, we have increasingly irrelevant unions, mad environmentalists, indigenous activists, Gay marriage advocates, in fact every man and his dog wants their say! welcome to democracy!

    We see this most obviously in the ferocious campaign waged by the likes of Gina Rinehart, Clive Palmer and Andrew Forrest against the Minerals Resource Rent Tax.

    So why is that such a problem in an open society? Or any different than the unions opposing workchoices? Labor are just peved that they were believed by the public.

    This has been supported by an Opposition that’s all too willing to kneel down at the feet of the vested interests, rather than stand up for the interests of Australian workers.

    Says a man who signs of on billions of dollars going to the vested interest favoured by Labor (like the climate change industry)

    Thankfully, the interests of ordinary Australians have not yet been drowned out by the desires of a well-funded, noisy handful.

    Sadly when a government pays so much to the likes to Tim Flannery et al can’t see the irony of this claim

    Labor is implementing critical reforms like the MRRT that ensure all Australians receive a fair return from the resources they own.

    Wayne

    No they are just hungry for the revenue after their earlier spendathon, first under Rudd, and now under Gillard.

  40. Craigy says:

    “No they are just hungry for the revenue after their earlier spendathon, first under Rudd, and now under Gillard.”

    You live in a parallel universe, we have the best economy in the world right now. I’ll stick with Suwannee…

    Before I wade through your talking points above, did you actually read the Monthly article?

  41. Ray Dixon says:

    Iain, a simple question (or three) for you:

    1) Do you want an election “now”, like Tony Abbott does?

    2) Do you think political parties need to spell out their policies prior to an election?

    3) If you and Abbott want an election “now”, why hasn’t Abbott spelled out his policies yet?

    Supplementary question: Isn’t all this “election now” bullshit exactly that … i.e. bullshit?

  42. Iain Hall says:

    Ok Ray I’ll play while i wait for the dinner to finish cooking.

    1) Do you want an election “now”, like Tony Abbott does?

    Yes

    2) Do you think political parties need to spell out their policies prior to an election?

    Sure and they have but we both know that policy detail is just part of what we decide our votes on, given the record of the Labor party in office, the bar for doing a better job is pretty low and I think that The Libs will easily jump higher than the bar.

    3) If you and Abbott want an election “now”, why hasn’t Abbott spelled out his policies yet?

    See may answer above, but I ask in return: Just how much policy detail would ever be enough for you? Because we all know that as a too the bottom of your boot straps Labor voter nothing Tony says about policy would meet with your approval.

    Supplementary question: Isn’t all this “election now” bullshit exactly that … i.e. bullshit?

    in a word: NO

  43. Ray Dixon says:

    Iain, Abbott has made it clear that his policies on a range of key issues will be announced “at some future date closer to the election”. This includes, for instance, his policy on what do with the NBN, what to do with paid paternity leave and what to do with the private health cover rebates. Yet he (and you) want an “election now”, without releasing those policies. Three words, Iain (or three letters):

    Q
    E
    D

  44. GD says:

    err, Ray, as soon as an election is called, whether tomorrow or in the near future, obviously the LIbs will reveal their policies. Duh! They are the opposition, they don’t owe you, or anyone, locked in stone policies at this stage of the game. To demand that they do just shows how weak Labor’s position is.

  45. Ray Dixon says:

    as soon as an election is called, whether tomorrow or in the near future, obviously the LIbs will reveal their policies

    Don’t you mean that’s when they’ll formulate them, GD? Like last time – eg the NBN. What happened to that made-on-the-run policy? The point I’m making is a simple one – Abbott doesn’t have policies in a lot of key areas yet he wants an “election now”. They certainly do owe me (and you and everyone else) a more detailed platform.

  46. GD says:

    err, once once again, why? I mean you’re just going to vote Labor anyway. Iain alluded to this earlier. Craigy’s going to vote for the fairies at the bottom of the garden. The sensible people will have paid attention to the hopelessly inept behaviour of the Labor Party, the monumental stuff-ups and the spiralling debt. Abbott’s demeanour, though unpopular with the chattering classes, Gen Y, and Gen Z, (thanks Craigy), is widely trusted by the conservative faithful. People who have been around the block a few times, people who are running businesses, employing staff. These people see beyond the luvvies view of PM-elect Tony Abbott.

    These people are, at the minute, supporting a party with a 56% approval rating.

  47. Ray Dixon says:

    err, once once again, why?

    So people can decide. So their policies can be scrutinised, that’s why. Going by your comment, there’s no need for policies. You are over-simplyfing the equation, GD. Btw, the Libs don’t have a 56% “approval rating”. Neither does Abbott. You are confusing two-party preferred with “approval rating”. Less than 50% of voters actually “approve” of the Libs as their first choice, and even less than that approve of Abbott. Try debating and not mockery and I’ll bother to respond again.

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