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‘PM, you know this information didn’t come from the Liberals. You’ll need to look a lot closer to home.”

28th July timetable

I was feeling a bit flat yesterday which is why I was rather absent from the comment threads for most of the day, But this little story is one that looks like it will keep giving as it is revealed that Julia Gillard is some what less than caring about the plight of our pensioners and (surprise surprise!) rather indifferent to those women who do the right thing for the country and make the next generation of Aussies.

She allegedly argued that it was wrong to think the scheme, due to start on January 1, would be an electoral winner because it would be resented by people beyond child-bearing age and stay-at-home mothers.

It is also claimed she questioned the size of last year’s $14 billion age pension boost – which delivered an extra $30 a week in the single base rate – commenting that the elderly didn’t vote Labor.

Ms Gillard did not deny the claims last night. ”I was very pleased to be a member of the Labor team that delivered these two historic achievements. Pensioners and families deserve more support, and this government has given them that support,” she said. ”Cabinet discussions are confidential.”

The claim that she opposed paid parental leave in cabinet emerged just two days after she used Sunday’s televised leaders’ debate to talk up the government’s scheme, which will offer primary carers 18 weeks’ paid leave at the minimum wage of about $570 a week.

Her allegedly negative stance on the pension boost was also at odds with her positive reference to it during the leaders’ debate, which elicited a positive movement in the ”worm” meter that tracked TV studio audience responses. ”We did a major increase in the pension to help older Australians,” she said.

Cabinet sources could not recall that Ms Gillard had made the reported comments on parental leave and pensions in cabinet. But the key decisions were often taken in the ”kitchen cabinet” of Kevin Rudd, Treasurer Wayne Swan, Finance Minister Lindsay Tanner and Ms Gillard.

Oakes, who was also the recipient of the leak about an alleged leadership deal on the night before Ms Gillard deposed Mr Rudd, identified his source last night as Labor.

When Ms Gillard responded that if the Liberals had allegations to make, they should put their names to them, Oakes said: ”PM, you know this information didn’t come from the Liberals. You’ll need to look a lot closer to home.”

I must admit that I just love the fact that even though he is dead to the Labor party that Brother Number One or one of his supporters is doing their darnedest to ensure that the woman who struck the killing blow will be reminded of the unwashable blood that is on her assassin’s hands. I bet that Gillard wishes that she could bug Laurie Oakes’ Phone and email accounts so that she could find out just who his source is.
It is no surprise though that Gillard would argue against maternity leave though and like a lot of socialists she actually does not care about pensioners, preferring to spend the money that the rise in their stipends costs on schemes for which she could have her name put to like building that shiney new school hall project… Hmm if only so many of the “Labor mates” had not had their noses so deeply in the trough of government largess then she would not have to contend with stories like this one in today’s OZ:

In Victoria, BER projects were run by the state Education Department for greater efficiency.

School principals and parent councils were not given financial details of projects or control over construction.

However, a major building company hired to carry out works on 33 schools told the inquiry that construction costs were inflated and the building permit fees were “considerably higher than we normally pay”.

BDH Constructions managing director Henry Bongers said: “The designs of most of the templates would be some of the most expensive we have been involved with on a square-metre basis mainly due to the shapes and structural design.”

He also said that building permits took too long and, as a result, many sites that had been set up and fenced “lay dormant” for up to four months.

“I believe that with better planning and more consultation with building industry representatives, the whole process would have been more organised, streamlined and had much better value for money,” Mr Bongers wrote in his submission.

Another builder, Vaughan Constructions, described as “rorting” the practice of bundling individual projects into a single, large contract to enable workers to be paid an additional hourly site allowance.

Vaughan Constructions general manager Andrew Noble said the practice, which was endorsed earlier this year by the Victorian Building Industry Disputes Panel, “has major consequences to the cost of the BER program”.

Horsham Rural City Council raised doubts about the limited use of local builders in the BER process and “the minimal economic benefits” to the local economy.

“This appears to be very evident in Horsham and Wimmera, a region which has been impacted by the long-term drought and, more recently, the Black Saturday bushfires,” said Tony Bawden, economic development general manager. “To our knowledge, the bulk of tenders let in our region have been to builders from outside the region.”

The Masters Builders Association of Victoria also expressed concerns about the cost of building permits, which it says blew out to four times greater than normal in Western Victoria.

Several schools complained about not getting value for money or being disadvantaged by being a government school and having the Victorian department run the BER program. Bannockburn Primary School council president Les Rowe wrote in his school’s submission: “Our building is to be the same size as a school portable yet is costed at least three times this amount.”

Fish Creek and District Primary School principal Robin Smith told the inquiry he did “not believe the timeliness, the transparency, or the final product delivers best value to our community”.

Mr Diment, whose Ocean Grove Primary School falls in Labor’s marginally held seat of Corangamite, said he still did not know when his school’s BER project was going to be completed.

click for the Courier Mail story

The final layer of this rather putrid cake is the revelation that the rail line to Redcliffe just won’t happen unless the  Bligh government can find the necessary 300 million to provide the rolling stock and other necessities to actually make the trains run. Now this is a very big ask for the woman who leads a government which has been mad keen to sell off the most profitable parts of the rail net work( the Coal trains) and other infrastructure assets so that she can balance her budget the reality is that the often promised Redcliffe rail line will be a huge impost of the Queensland budget and there is every chance that despite these promises the only trains that will run in Redcliffe any time soon will be those built by the local model railway  club.

So lets see what new developments are revealed in today’s exiting journey in the Omnibus and I know that I have concentrated on the woes of the Government here today but I fully expect that Ray will pipe up and enunciate the foibles of the opposition in the comemnts

Cheers Comrades

Update

I am watching Gillard’s news conference about the Leak to Laurie and she looks rather rattled the tone of her voice is very clearly angry. This is a rather clear difference to the more measured and spin stained efforts earlier in this campaign. For the first time she is being asked the hard questions and its very clear that she doesn’t like it one bit !

Tune in to ABS news24 now!

Cheers Comrades


48 Comments

  1. Ray Dixon says:

    It’s just dirty politics and an attempt to smear Gillard along gender lines, nothing else. The ALP could just as easily point out that Abbott has previously argued strongly against the same parental leave scheme he’s now championing. He did. And publicly.

    Btw, in my opinion a politician would be right to query the cost & benefit of both the ALP’s & the Liberals’ paid parental leave schemes. I don’t like them and I think they’re just vote-buying policies by both parties.

    Oakes is earning a reputation as the least credible journalist in the country. He’s worse than Bolt because he’s actually engineering political issues in a blatant attempt to influence public opinion. Anyway, come tomorrow this story will be forgotten.

    BTW, it looks like Glenn Milne (not known to be a friend of the ALP) has got some very interesting and far worse ‘dirt’ on your precious Mr Abbott. More later.

  2. Iain Hall says:

    Hardly bad at all Ray
    The book was in the first instance a political document and there is no suggestion that the travel was in any sense outside the guidelines for his travel entitlements.
    Nothing to see there at all
    On the other hand did you see how rattled Gillard was at her press conference?
    For the first time she was facing Journos who were asking hard questions and she was never more than a heartbeat away from losing her rag!

  3. magsx2 says:

    Hi Iain,
    I just finished watching Julia’s press conference on the ABC 24news. She is looking very tired, I thought her comment on the leak was a poor attempt at spin, she is usually better at spinning than that.
    The article in the ABC unleashed states:- “Was he also doing government business in the places where he promoted his book? Even if he was, is it appropriate to plug your book while you’re there when taxpayers are paying the travel bill?”
    I’d say Tony was on Government business, that’s why that sentence was put in, and why not plug his book while he is there? It would be stupid not to.

  4. Iain Hall says:

    Yes indeed Mags its not as if the book was ever something done as a commercial proposition now is it? The book is all about his politics and
    philosophy.
    I think that the big spread that the Women’s Weekly has done on Gillard is actually rather questionable in the context of its timing and the election

  5. Ray Dixon says:

    Wishful thinking, Iain. Abbott has a case to answer on his honesty when it comes to using taxpayer money for his own benefit. Wait, as soon as this non-story about Gillard having the, er, audacity to query policies before they become law (like, she’s not supposed to do that?) blows over, it’ll be Abbott under the spotlight having to explain himself. And the records don’t lie.

  6. Ray Dixon says:

    The book is a private exercise, Iain.

  7. Husky Jim says:

    What is a lie is that it is a BIG story.
    I just listened to the Libs press conference re their company tax policy and there was not a single question on this smear.
    I had to cut it off early so one may have come up after I left it, but if it was big, don’t you think it would be a question that the gallery were smashing themselves to ask.

  8. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    And the records don’t lie.
    I have just watched Tony’s press conference and the question was put to him he gave a very simple and direct answer that his travel was absolutely with the guidelines and the journos did not follow up at all. So I think that you are wrong to suggest that, the Milne piece has any legs at all. On the other hand the press scrum were very keen to put the blow torch to Gillard’s belly. that stark difference suggests more trouble for your preferred candidate than there will be for mine 🙂

  9. Ray Dixon says:

    Well I know whose shoes I’d rather be in today, Iain. This info on Abbott’s travel rorts did not come from Labor, it came from a journo well known to be anti-Labor in fact. I think you’ll find now though that the government will look very closely into the veracity of Abbott’s claims and go for the jugular. We’ll see.

  10. Husky Jim says:

    But you won’t condone dirty politics though?

  11. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    there is no rorts involved and the ALP just won’t go near this one because they know that if they do then every one of their pollies being put under the microscope and they are sure to have just as many potentially ambiguous travel claims. Glen Milne looks like he is sad that Laurie Oaks has all of the limelight.

  12. Ray Dixon says:

    HJ, it’s not “dirty politics”. The facts surrounding Abbott’s travel rorts are in the public domain, on public record and have been publicly exposed by a clearly independent journo. Whereas Oakes is clearly doing the Libs dirty work by claiming to have a source (that he won’t name) over a very petty issue – i.e. that Gillard scrutinised a policy before it was adopted. Jeebus, what a story!

    At least we saw Gillard getting on the front foot here and shooting from the hip. I agree (as I’ve said before) that she has conducted a hollow, spin campaign to date, but this Oakes/Libs smear has brought out the fight in her. It’s good stuff and I’d like to see her be herself more often. I think she needs to show us that she’s not Rudd reinvented.

  13. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    you are showing a double standard here:

    been publicly exposed by a clearly independent journo. Whereas Oakes is clearly doing the Libs dirty work

    It certainly looks like Milne is trying to do the Labor party’s dirty work here even though his story has no legs!

  14. Husky Jim says:

    Oh well if it being in the public domain stops it being dirty??????

    Oakes’s source is in the ALP Ray in fact it is probably Kevin Rudd or someone loyal to him and formerly very close to Gillard (that’s in the public domain Ray). Oakes is one of the countries least partisan journalists and he’s got a reputation to protect so one doubts that the information is only coming from one source or that it isn’t confirmed by others who were there.
    The issue isn’t that Gillard was against pension increases or that she was against parental leave. It’s that she claims to be very thourough in her scrutiny and that she was so involved and dedicated to the Rudd cabinet that she took the time to argue against policy that might have financial impacts.
    You see Ray since she was “elected” as PM, Ms. Gillard has saught to distance herself from the decisions of the cabinet and the failures of the Rudd team. This shows that she was more than involved in those failures. Or that she saw the failures on the horizon and failed to act earlier to prevent them.

  15. Ray Dixon says:

    No Iain, there is no “double standard” in what I’ve said and there is a clear distinction between what Oakes has attempted to do and what Milne has actually done.

    Oakes has quoted an un-named source that he claims is in the party. And let’s face it, the issue he raised is only about an opinion on a policy – hardly earth shattering. Whereas Milne has gone to public records to expose what is potentially a fraud by Abbott involving him claiming $6,500 in expenses for private purposes.

    Maybe the government should refer it to the AFP?

  16. Husky Jim says:

    LOL!

  17. Iain Hall says:

    Potential Fraud????
    now you are gilding the Lily big time!!!!
    😆
    All members of the parliament are given a certain amount of allowance for travel and Tony Abbott has not misused his allowance. Your suggesting that he has is akin to complaining that someone has banked their wages! its laughable. As I said before if this story had any legs the press gallery would have been all over it but the fact is there was a token effort and they were satisfied with the answer given by Abbott . But compare that with the dynamic at Gillard’s press conference she was constantly asked hard questions about the Oakes story and as Jim has pointed out she has crossed a line that only days ago she was insisting that she would not cross :she has revealed the content of cabinet discussions that are supposed to remain confidential. and on top of that there is the matter of the cohesiveness of the Labor party and the fact that it must contain elements who are more concerned about furthering internecine conflicts than retaining government.
    same as it ever was…..

  18. Ray Dixon says:

    Iain, you are going way over the top on the so-called Gillard cabinet matter. As usual you are flogging the Liberal streamers harder than Joffa flogs the Collingwood ones. All you need now is a gold jacket and to lose a few front teeth and presto, you’ll morph into the cheer squad leader.

    I watched the full Gillard press conference and guess what? I was super impressed with her front foot performance.

    As for Abbott’s rort, you are wrong. If he’s found to have falsely claimed travel expenses it is indeed a fraud. My guess is the government is having it all checked out now as we speak. Don’t forget, this did not come from them.

  19. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    I make no secret of my political preferences and neither have you. I’m glad that you saw the whole thing and I am sure that most ” Labor true believers” like yourself will see the performance as you suggest but you are surely not one eyed enough not to see that there is a definite ‘white ant” problem in the ALP that is most likely coming from Rudd or one of his mates this is a something that the ALP is famous for and Gillard’s performance this morning won’t lay it to rest.
    Swinging voters who will most likely see this whole thing very differently and there in lays the potential minefield for Gillard.
    Oh and please don’t keep talking about some obscure (in Queensland terms ) footy fanatic because It means nothing to me at all.

  20. Ray Dixon says:

    I reckon I’m more even handed than you are, Iain. I have conceded that Gillard has been hollow and full of spin. I reckon Rudd would have won and I agree it’s a problem for her that he’s obviously not over it (who would be?). And I even agree that it’s wrong to attack Abbott on his religious convictions. But, like it or not, by the time this campaign is over you are certainly going to know who Joffa is and no, I will not let up on the comparisons. Cheers.

  21. Iain Hall says:

    Ray

    I reckon I’m more even handed than you are

    😆

    well that is your subjective judgement and I won’t make a big deal about it.

    This is an amusing vid and one for which Lynot will need a box of tissues and a fresh pair of trousers….

    Oh yeah and on the leaks Bolt is pretty good

  22. justmeint says:

    Is this going to be a gender election people? That would be a grave mistake I believe. Issues and policies are the important things here, and not who has the sexiest ankles or the prettiest hair colouring!

    It’s not very long ago that the American People voted in their First African American President – on a platform of ‘change’. I would guess that non white Americans were delirious when Barack Obama was sworn in as their 44th President, praying for, pleading for and dreaming of great changes that would be of immense benefit to themselves.
    http://just-me-in-t.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-would-younger-women-vote-for-julia.html

  23. Husky Jim says:

    Can I just say that I’ve been listening to ABC radio all day.
    In each of the news bulletins since 8am, the PM’s response to the cabinet leak story has been item #1.
    In not one of those bulletins has the Abbott story even been mentioned.

    I think that given that DRUM is an abc entity, that the abc’s judgement on these two issues should be the one we take as indication of the worth of the story.

  24. Husky Jim says:

    “Don’t forget, this did not come from them.”

    Unlike cabinet leaks?

  25. Iain Hall says:

    That matches what I have seen on News 24 Jim 🙂
    Gillard looked more like her usual free spinning self later in the day when she was launching a water initiative in Adelaide but that story has disappeared from the commentary. I’ll check around the news services but I expect that they will be the same.

  26. elephantandrat says:

    gee and Laurie Oakes is a font of all knowledge….the man is washed up and irrelevant.

    move on and get real, this constant dirty negative dishonesty is getting boring

  27. Husky Jim says:

    Day in the life of an issue.

    Pro coalition blogger blogs on reports of PMs lack of support in cabinet for policy she now sells to the electorate.

    Anti coalition commenter poo poos the reports as the dirty work of a dirty journalist who’s repeating the liberals lies fed to him as a dirty trick.
    Anti coalition commenter aludes to better “dirt” of coalition leader.

    All news carries reports of PM’s lack of support in cabinet for policy she now sells to the electorate.
    No news carries reports of better “dirt” of coalition leader.

    PM admits that she was less than enthusiastic in cabinet for policy she now sells to the electorate. Confirms that there is a leak in that cabinet (or from former members) and is furious about that leak.

    Still no reports of better “dirt” of coalition leader.

    Anti coalition commenter says, “My dirts still better than yours.”

    Plane crashes in Pakistan.

    Not much chance of reports of better “dirt” of coalition leader now.

  28. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    A quick look at the front page of the courier mail site shows this
    and the OZshows this
    Fairfax is running this story
    There is no mention at all about Tony using his travel allowance to promote his book on the Fairfax front page
    Its all Labor Leaks

  29. Ray Dixon says:

    Iain, today’s news = tomorrow’s fush & chups wrapper (in Nu Zuland). This stuff about Gillard and cabinet is like a piece of white bait. Make a meal out of it if you will but no one will give it a second thought after today. Whereas the Abbott stuff is a sleeping giant. A bloody big whale just waiting to gobble him up.

  30. Iain Hall says:

    That is just wishful thinking Ray and were I an ALP supporter I would probably be running a similar line but the facts are against you here, and we shall see if it continues tomorrow shall we?

  31. Ray Dixon says:

    Iain, you are getting mighty close to a ‘separated @ birth’ photo that I’ve got in mind.

    It’s of you and Jo…. (you know who!)

  32. Iain Hall says:

    I am far more handsome than Joh Ray, and my last name is much easier to spell 🙂

  33. Ray Dixon says:

    It wasn’t “Joh” I was referring to, Iain.

    It’s J O _ _ _

  34. Iain Hall says:

    Nah you will have to help me here Ray because I don’t get it 🙄

  35. elephantandrat says:

    we just have to wait for the post election period when Malcolm has another shot at leader after the conservative agenda falls flat on its arse.

    just hang in there Ray, we will have the last laugh!

  36. Ray Dixon says:

    I wonder how Iain et al will handle Turnbull’s inevitable return to leader of the OPPOSITION post election?

  37. gigdiary says:

    “I wonder how Iain et al will handle Turnbull’s inevitable return to leader of the OPPOSITION post election?”

    Well I, for one, will welcome it, because that’s the only realistic way forward for the Libs…

  38. Ray Dixon says:

    Yes GD, I’m aware of your views on the Lib leadership and I didn’t mean to include you in my reference.

    Iain, on the other hand, has made it clear that Turnbull is persona non grata in his opinion, mainly because Malcolm believes in man-made climate change and supports the ETS bill.

    Where will Iain go if Turnbull gets his old job back? Family First? No, he’s not religious. The Greens? No, same reason and I don’t think Iain is that crazy.

    So it looks like there’ll be nothing left for him except … the Sex Party!

  39. gigdiary says:

    Ray, I’m a fairly ‘rusted on’ Liberal, but I cannot, in all sincerity, wholeheartedly endorse Abbott for the prime ministership. He’s not ‘statesman’ material as that old ad used to say. Much to Iain’s chagrin, I agree that Julia has a much better chance at the chalice this time around than Tony. I believe that we can withstand a further onslaught of ineptitude from Labor for another three years; of course, they are going to learn from their mistakes, aren’t they?

    What we don’t need is the premature delivery of a new Liberal government that is still sucking on the teat of Menzies and Howard. This is not 1960 or 1990. Turnbull has shown, on Q and A, on Monday, and throughout his short leadership, that he is more than a man of the party, that he can be a politician for all, within the Liberal confine.

    On the other hand, Abbott is way and above the better candidate to win the election. Although he’s rough around the edges, his political nous is honed, Julia’s is stage-managed, botoxed, to within an inch of her career, yet the populace still regard Julia as the more palatable option.

    Female Gen Y particularly seem ready to forgive Julia any transgression, Abbott is too much like a stern uncle for them.

    By all means win this one, but watch out, Ray, though you’ll win this one, it will be a victory by default. And in the long term, a pyrrhic victory.

  40. Iain Hall says:

    GD & Ray
    I have for a very long time been resigned to that fact that choosing a government often gets down to deciding which is the lesser of the two evils on offer. And while I do have some reservations about Abbott & co those reservations are very definitively out weighed by my reservations about the current Labor Government which has been so inept and so incompetent.
    As Ray points out my reservations about Turnbull certainly does pertain to his enthusiasm for an emissions trading scheme something that even the hard left Greens think would be expensive( for the people) and more importantly ineffective in its ability to mitigate carbon emissions. He showed a very clear lack of judgment by agreeing to a deal with the government that left the opposition no room to move or to oppose what was clearly a very bad scheme. That said I like Turnbull as a man he is certainly more charming and charismatic that Tony is. But I respect Abbott and so to do a lot of people even if they don’t like his religion or his style .
    I still think that the election is winnable for the coalition and the events of the last few days have shown that Abbot is in with a chance.But more than anything when it comes to claims that “the coalition is not ready to govern” I think of the old adage “cometh the hour, cometh the man” because an unready Abbott has to be better than an incompetent Gillard 😉

  41. Ray Dixon says:

    The Libs need more than one term in opposition, Iain. Otherwise they’ll just be a rehash of the Howard days and they’ll take it that there is no need to progress, no need to change and they’ll take us backwards.

    I reckon the Rudd/Gillard Labor government has certainly made some mistakes but you cannot forget that 12 months into government they were confronted with the greatest world financial crisis the world has seen since the 1930s and that was something that would cause problems for any government.

    But the fact is that Rudd’s & Swan’s decisive action and stimulus package DID save Australia from the worse impacts and has placed us in the strongest economic position of all western countries. This is acknowledged world wide. Sure, they may have over-spent and the projects may have been rushed out. Well guess what? Time was of the essence and we were under seige. What would the Libs have done? Well we already know they would have done the opposite and sent us into deep recession.

    So I think Labor is owed another term and then perhaps you can fairly judge them on their record.

    As for the Libs, I sincerely hope Turnbull comes back and manages to reform the party. My guess is though tha,t try as he will, there are just too many hardline right wingers in the party for him to truly succeed. Turnbull has only made one major career stuff up in his entire life – he joined the wrong party. If he’d joined the ALP he’d be PM already.

  42. Husky_Jim says:

    If the story had any legs it would be here now – not coming.

    I’ll bet it never sees the light of day beyond a passing mention. Which is where it is now.
    Even Milne (Glenn not Christine) has moved on Ray.
    EVEN the DRUM has dropped it.
    It’s like workchoices. DEAD BURRIED AND CREMATED

  43. Ray Dixon says:

    You’re on the wrong thread HJ. My comment about Abbott’s travel rorts has been moved to today’s rehash of yesterday’s news. Put your comment there and I’ll respond.

  44. Iain Hall says:

    Ray

    The Libs need more than one term in opposition, Iain. Otherwise they’ll just be a rehash of the Howard days and they’ll take it that there is no need to progress, no need to change and they’ll take us backwards.

    I just don’t buy this. The Howard Government was definitely not as bad or in competent of the one that replaced it in 2007 and if you were being fair you would realise that all of the big ticket negatives (in latte sipper terms) of that government have been neutralized, Iraq, our commitment there is now minimal and restricted to a non contentious level. WorkChoices is “dead buried and cremated” and there just never was any suggestion that the government was irresponsible or incompetent when it comes to the administration of any of its programs.

    I reckon the Rudd/Gillard Labor government has certainly made some mistakes but you cannot forget that 12 months into government they were confronted with the greatest world financial crisis the world has seen since the 1930s and that was something that would cause problems for any government.

    I don’t forget it at all Ray but You forget or ignore the fact that we went into the “crisis” with a damn good starting position to begin with, but I think that they panicked and once they began stimulating the economy they did not know how or when to take their foot off the spend peddle. And I think that it is very wrong to down play their monumental stuff ups as “some mistakes” only one government in my life time has come close to this one when it comes to incompetence and they got thrown out just as this government deserves to be thrown out.

    But the fact is that Rudd’s & Swan’s decisive action and stimulus package DID save Australia from the worse impacts and has placed us in the strongest economic position of all western countries. This is acknowledged world wide. Sure, they may have over-spent and the projects may have been rushed out. Well guess what? Time was of the essence and we were under siege. What would the Libs have done? Well we already know they would have done the opposite and sent us into deep recession.

    Don’t you think that a cool head is always better in a crisis? It would not have hurt to have given each of the “mistakes”a little bit more thought because after acting in haste they now find that they lack the leisure for repentance.

    So I think Labor is owed another term and then perhaps you can fairly judge them on their record.

    I fail to see why you think this apart from some sort of tribal loyalty to the ALP

    As for the Libs, I sincerely hope Turnbull comes back and manages to reform the party. My guess is though that try as he will, there are just too many hardline right wingers in the party for him to truly succeed. Turnbull has only made one major career stuff up in his entire life – he joined the wrong party. If he’d joined the ALP he’d be PM already.

    You cite the problem with your own argument here Ray, Turnbull joined the wrong party and he is a poor fit for the Liberals .

  45. Ray Dixon says:

    Oh yeah, Iain, lets just have a one party government forever. Come on, you know how it goes – we just had 11 years of Liberals who benefitted from the 13 years of Labor before them. Now its Labor’s turn. You’re one-eyed (much more than I am) to not concede that (a) The Libs are not ready to return (b) Labor has not actually stuffed up the economy and is worth another term.

  46. Husky Jim says:

    Yep sorry Ray.

  47. Husky Jim says:

    The only reason that Labor has not actually stuffed up the economy, YET, is because we just had 11 years of Liberals and the economy was robust enough to cater for their incompetent management. It took 3 years to unravel that 11 years.
    We simply no longer have the robust stocks to survive 3 more years of this kind on ineptness.

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