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“A charter or a bill of rights guarantees nothing”

I was most impressed by Bob Carr’s argument about the bill of rights advocacy that I read in the weekend OZ. He makes a persuasive argument for continuing to rely on the common law and our Parliament to protect the rights of our citizens rather than surrendering  to the whims and prejudices of unelected Judges by way of a charter or bill of rights.

Bob Carr

Bob Carr

IF Australians were asked whether they wanted non-elected judges to enjoy the final say on all public policy, it is pretty clear how they would vote. A modest increase in judicial review was proposed in 1988. Voters were asked only to endorse trial by jury, freedom of religion and fair terms for property acquired by government, by inserting these as rights in the constitution. The referendum lost in every state and territory by votes of up to 75 per cent.

Now the federal Government has an inquiry into how rights can best be protected in Australia. The advocates of a bill of rights have watered down their proposal to a charter based on legislation and not added to the constitution, and which parliaments can in theory overrule.

This faces a bigger hurdle than mere public disdain: there is now close to a consensus that it would be unconstitutional.

“How can anyone be opposed?” ask the frustrated enthusiasts who’ve tried to agitate for this issue. Well, to start with, a charter or a bill of rights guarantees nothing.

It is doubly nice to see that it is a Labor man putting this argument because it gives all of us conservatives the vague hope that they are not all total idiots on that side of politics.
Cheers Comrades


40 Comments

  1. Phill says:

    “It is doubly nice to see that it is a Labor man putting this argument because it gives all of us conservatives the vague hope that they are not all total idiots on that side of politics.”

    Ah Bob Carr my interest in anything that he says is as about as interesting as me informing you of the state of the large boil on my arse, that is growing larger by the day.

    And right back at ya there Iain, every time I see a Joe Hockey, Tony Abbot, or indeed mental giants like John Howard, I know there is time left for my own greatness to shine through.

    But if it’s a competition on intellect of right versus left? I remind myself daily, and will so whilst lying on my death bed, that most by a long shot, no argument, or debate necessary, of the worlds intellectuals, artists, musicians, scientists, and anyone else of worth to humanity I have left out, are all of the left persuasion.

    Yes I know all about Stalin Mao, etc, but the connection just aint there to modern progressives. Just like the Nazi’s who were extreme right wing fascists notwithstanding the misnomer of the name “National Socialist Party “, the natty little name the right tries to use to rewrite history, can be compared to the modern day Liberal Party! Or can they? ha ha.

    Cheers Iain.

  2. Iain Hall says:

    It was an aside expressing my honest surprise to see such an argument from a Labor man whom I generally disagree with on everything is all Phill 🙂 I realise that neither side of politics as a monopoly on truth 🙂

  3. Phill says:

    Indeed Iain. However for mine Bob Carr was as far as I’m concerned in the wrong party. He is one of a long list of “Conga Line” etc” of which Mark the mouth Latham referred to.

    Of course there is another Bob more famous than the Bob Carr I don’t like, but he shall remain my secret as his very name and appearance, make me want to puke.

    But to the topic Iain. Something along the line of a bill of rights will come when they get rid of state governments which for mine is long overdue.But there are certain things I would like to see enshrined in a bill of rights and laugh at your leisure, my right to strangle some fucker that trespasses on me, on my family, or my property.

    And my right as a law abiding citizen to bear arms. That does not mean having a forty five under my waist coat ,but a rifle at home to waste some bastard who is intent on doing me harm.

  4. Shawn Whelan says:

    Beliefs of the National socialist Party and Phill

    Control free speech Nazis yes Phill yes
    Gun Control Nazis yes Phill yes
    Control the school system so as to indoctrinate the children Nazis yes Phill yes
    Control the countries banks and industries Nazis yes Phill yes
    Blame the economic problems on capitalism Nazis yes Phill yes
    Use race to discriminate against the successful race Nazis yes Phill yes
    Discriminate against a religious group(this time just make it Christians) Nazis yes Phill yes

    You see Phill they really were socialists, and you socialists still belief in the same things. Nothing has changed.

  5. Phill says:

    Hey Shawn whatever you are smoking I will have some.

  6. Shawn Whelan says:

    Hey Phill I notice you did not argue the truth of the facts I posted.

    Most modern day socialist do not realize they share their beliefs with the National socialists of 1930’s Germany. Glad to point it out.

  7. Phill says:

    Shawn I am not going to dissect your puerile twaddle, If I feel I need to debate a six year old, I will engage my grandchildren in conversation, who by the way much smarter than you.The only thing you have pointed out, is what you know about political history, and that is five fifths of seven eighths of F.A.

    If you take pleasure in insulting people try it on some other space cadet who may play your games, but not me.

    As I said in a previous comment what ever it is you are smoking I will have some.

    No more correspondence please, anything else will be given the contempt it deserves.

  8. Iain Hall says:

    Phill

    But there are certain things I would like to see enshrined in a bill of rights and laugh at your leisure, my right to strangle some fucker that trespasses on me, on my family, or my property.

    Too bloody right! although I would not hesitate to use lethal force to protect my family, legal consequences or not.

    And my right as a law abiding citizen to bear arms. That does not mean having a forty five under my waist coat ,but a rifle at home to waste some bastard who is intent on doing me harm.

    I’m not so fond of guns myself but I do appreciate just where you are coming from 😉

  9. Evan Diebeh says:

    I have no problem with the right to bear arms at home but let’s face it, tha’s not where guns stay. Most school massacres and workers going postal in the States are perpetrated by nutty individuals who just pulled their firearms off the rack at home. Martin Bryant is another case in point.

    Shawn, your rants about the Nazis being socialists is funny as buggery mate, well done. Brought a smile to my face on this dready workday Monday. Or were you perhaps being serious?

  10. Phill says:

    “Shawn, your rants about the Nazis being socialists is funny as buggery mate, well done. Brought a smile to my face on this dready workday Monday. Or were you perhaps being serious?”

    The best bit was I was like the Nazi’s blaming the capitalists for the economic problems, “Well Hello” any way I thought they blamed the Jews for everything.

    And my wife wants to know why I drink.

  11. Evan Diebeh says:

    Yeah but you only drink lattes, Phill…

  12. Phill says:

    “Yeah but you only drink lattes, Phill…”

    Indeed. But they do taste good, that’s when I’m not drinking the “Koolade” what ever that is?

  13. PKD says:

    I must admit Shawns attempts to claim the Nazis were reeeeeaaally left wing socialists are almost as funny as his AGW posts!!! 🙂

  14. Shawn Whelan says:

    Beliefs of the National socialist Party and Phill

    Control free speech Nazis yes Phill yes
    Gun Control Nazis yes Phill yes
    Control the school system so as to indoctrinate the children Nazis yes Phill yes
    Control the countries banks and industries Nazis yes Phill yes
    Blame the economic problems on capitalism Nazis yes Phill yes
    Use race to discriminate against the successful race Nazis yes Phill yes
    Discriminate against a religious group(this time just make it Christians) Nazis yes Phill yes

    You see Phill they really were socialists, and you socialists still belief in the same things. Nothing has changed.

    Now point out what is not historically factual about my post.

    The main plank of the fascists was the end of capitalism to be replaced by the third way. Same as the basis for our Canadian NDP/CCF socialist party was the end of capitalism.

    Just for once don’t act like leftoids with the personal attacks and actually deal with the truth of these facts.

    Read Mein Kampf Phill(I doubt you actually read books) and you will see how Hitler had many of the same ideas as the modern socialist.

    Just look at the mess the hero of the leftoids, Hugo Chavez, has created in Venezuela.

    http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/

  15. Shawn Whelan says:

    I must admit Shawns attempts to claim the Nazis were reeeeeaaally left wing socialists are almost as funny as his AGW posts!!!

    Where is that writeup on AGW you have been promising. I want to see the part where you explain the expanding polar ice.

  16. Phill says:

    “I must admit Shawns attempts to claim the Nazis were reeeeeaaally left wing socialists are almost as funny as his AGW posts!!! 🙂 ”

    Indeed. But how’s his style ?

    “Just for once don’t act like leftoids with the personal attacks and actually deal with the truth of these facts.”

    Hey all of the historians of the world, are all wrong! I’ve read Mein Kampf and done a total analysis of Herr Schickelgruber’s thought process, and hey I’m right.I know I am. Yep I know I am.

    I was going to say I read Mein Kampf in Baghdad while Shawn was in Dadsbag.But never mind.

    Iain I do love your blog, you have some funny people here.

  17. Shawn Whelan says:

    Phill,
    I think if it’s not on a beer bottle you don’t read it!

  18. Shawn Whelan says:

    And still you never pointed out any actual factual errors in my post. So typical of a leftoid.

    Like Ann Coulter says, “Liberalism is a Mental Disorder”.

  19. Evan Diebeh says:

    Shawn I might as well indulge you and your loopy contortion of history although I suspect it will do no good.

    Control free speech Nazis yes Phill yes

    No Shawn no. Restriction of free speech is a common facet of all totalitarian regimes, whether fascist, communist or otherwise. There was hardly true free speech in England or the US anyway, since IWW, union leaders, female suffragettes and countless others were silenced in a variety of ways.

    Control the school system so as to indoctrinate the children Nazis yes Phill yes

    Been to a school in the US by any chance Shawn? It’s all flags, anthems, prayers, oaths, liberty and the American way. The media is full of cases where teachers have been sacked for criticising the president or US policies. Not at the same level as the anti-Semitic bollocks the Nazis put into their education system, but hardly an open-minded liberal education is it?

    Control the countries banks and industries Nazis yes Phill yes

    The Nazis did no such thing, they simply moved the economy into spend-spend mode and steered it towards a war footing. They didn’t nationalise industries they just did deals with oligarchs. All of the big companies in Nazi Germany remained privately owned, hardly the case in a socialist economy.

    Blame the economic problems on capitalism Nazis yes Phill yes

    Hitler blamed the Versailles treaty, the rest of the world, corruption and Jewish conspiracies for Germany’s economic woes, not capitalism.

    Discriminate against a religious group(this time just make it Christians) Nazis yes Phill yes

    I seem to remember that there was a Catholic presidential candidate in the US around the time Hitler came to power and he lost largely because the other side called him a stinking Pope-lover who would take his orders from Rome. Discrimination against a religious group in free America, who’d have thunk?!?

    You see Phill they really were socialists, and you socialists still belief in the same things. Nothing has changed.

    No it hasn’t, you’re still wrong. You can line up any two things and find similarities between them if you decide the criteria and ignore some basic facts. What’s your next trick Shawn, are you going to tell us that Pol Pot was a paid-up member of the Labor Party? Or that Obama is really a giant lizard in a man suit?

  20. Phill says:

    “Shawn I might as well indulge you and your loopy contortion of history although I suspect it will do no good.”

    You have a lot of patience Evan, I can’t be bothered with Shawns twaddle.But hey I will give him a bit of credit,he has supported his contortions with a quote from Ann Coulter. So Shawn must be right, after all a mental giant like Ann Coulter who some people say, only some mind you, couldn’t find her own arse hole with both hands clinches it.

    I’m done, I give in. Shawn wins.

  21. PKD says:

    Its almost a pity Shawn isn’t also qualified as a historian.

    Then his views would be as informed as his scientific views on AGW as a ‘qualified Geologist’! :):):)

  22. PKD says:

    Oh PS Shawn – Until you learn to stop inventing false claims by AGW scientists I won’t be taking you any more seriously on AGW than the guys here are on the Nazis…its all up to you Shawn.

  23. Shawn Whelan says:

    Have another beer Phill and where is that master writeup on AGW PKD. Just ducking the subject?

  24. PKD says:

    *sighs* Aaaah little Shawn – Its up to me when I can find the time to write what I want and do it justice.

    You see – unlike you I don’t just invent false claims up that dont stand upto simple analysis. I actually write stuff that I can back up with evidence.

    And that takes more time than you spouting lies about Hansen, or coming up with meaningless drivel about ‘left-wing’ Nazis…got it?

  25. PKD says:

    oh, and even when I do get round to writing Shawn, you’re still on the banned list of any serious debate on AGW until you do learn to stop inventing false claims…so don’t get all excited expecting any replies to whatever lies you invent for that debate!

  26. Shawn Whelan says:

    1/ The leftards over here and I believe also in Australia have their RC commissions. If even on the internet anything is said that is politically incorrect and they don’t agree with you, you will be charged and required to go in front of a tribunal for a show trial. The conviction rate is 100%. Feel free to insult white males and Christians. Show a Islam cartoon and you will be charged. Racism from the left covered over with nice names like diversity.

    2/ The leftoids control the school system and indoctrinate the children into the big government is good for you idea. yObviousl ou guys all fell for it. Please explain why having an American flag in an American school is a bad thing.

    3/ Of course if you knew anything about the Nazi’s you would know they controlled the industries and the banks. Hitler was pro union and setup his own unions to control the workers. No different than the dream of todays leftard.

    4/ Of course they blames capitalism. It is the very basis of Fascism to end capitalism and replace it with the third way. You really need to do some reading and get your facts straight. Same as todays leftard wanting to end capitalism. Look at what President Hopey Changey has done to the US. The US economy is crushed and Hopeychangey will be out of money soon. The leftoids gathered in a big circle chanting “Yes we can” over and over will not fix the economy. This will likely be a surprise to the leftoids.

    5/ When Hitler came to power the President was FDR. True that FDR copied many of the ideas of the fascists. Setup the NRA to control industry, helped organize unions, artificially set prices, confiscated the peoples gold, spent like a drunken sailor, tried to pack the Supreme court so as to go around the Constitution and greatly extended the life of the last Depression. More proof that the socialist of today is just like yesterdays. The Catholic thing is to long an explanation for me to explain to people that have never read history. Just let it be known that the Catholic church was very involved in controlling the people of Canada. they still have their own school system and controlled the province of Quebec until the ’60’s.

    6/ Nope. The basics of the leftoids are always the same. Control the speech and the schools(just look how brainwashed you guys are) and take away the weapons from the people. And put the government in charge of the banks and industry. It always ends in a disaster. Just watch the USA implode.

    I always like where a person works, earns his own money and spends his own money. Why people would want the government to confiscateyour money and spend it for you is beyond my understanding. Look at history and big government has always been corrupt and lead to failure. So now we get to live some history. The Great Depression part 2.

  27. Shawn Whelan says:

    Phill you are a man of rare genius as leftards go.

    So Shawn must be right, after all a mental giant like Ann Coulter who some people say, only some mind you, couldn’t find her own arse hole with both hands clinches it.

  28. Phill says:

    Iain to get back on topic, A bill of rights was always planned by the Nazi’s.Of course as you know, It was planned just prior to the invasion of Ireland which was their second choice.Tahiti was always on the menu, but after careful consideration by Neville Chamberlain, it was thought to be to far away and Adolph had a bad reaction to the tropical sun anyway..

    It was just as well, Russia was always recognised to be nice in the spring, the eastern front being a wonderland of excitement with lashings of canned sardines and Spanish olives.The long cold nights and the warm sound of electric guitars and flutes were driving the French crazy, their culture already under attack from the leftoid cave dwellers that lived in Prague.

    But all is not lost the caped crusader of conservadom was at hand to thrust his sword into the beast. Yes and yes again, Shawn will save us all.

    Yea well it makes as much sense as Shawn’s postings. 🙂

    O yes those were the heady days of Leftoidism which on occasions still courses through my veins.

  29. Shawn Whelan says:

    You know Phill,

    That is just about the average voters understanding.

    And you seem pretty much the average brain washed voter.

    Don’t worry the government will take care of you.
    Big government good.

  30. Phill says:

    Shawn a hot flash for you, conservatives memory of past history goes back to about last Monday.Everything you and I take for granted in the modern context, was fought for by the left in it’s many incarnations.It is you who should start doing some reading.In fact the twaddle you spruik convinces me you have not read a book, and your education is limited to, conservative talking points.

    That you are a tenderfoot, a beginner in life’s experience,and have a warped sense of right and wrong, sticks out like the proverbial dogs nuts.But unlike you, I have still room for the rich tapestry of other peoples opinions, you have the tunnel vision, that the left are almost always accused of.

    I will not seriously debate you about Nazi Germany, it is a given by any sentient being, that Hitler and his gang of homicidal manics were right wing fascist bastards.You are trying to convince an audience to the contrary, of what has been an accepted historical fact, for sixty years. Not by some bloger who wouldn’t know his elbow from his arse hole, but by a group of historians and other academics with PhD’s that could fill a library.

    In conclusion, I unlike most who comment on these blogs am a realist, all politicians left/right are shysters, and self serving pricks, this unfortunately is the way of the world.If you think for a nano second they give a flying fuck about you or I , your naivety is only exceeded by your stupidity.

  31. PKD says:

    Heh – I have to hand it to Shawn, he’s at least managed to prove something here.

    Not all scientists should be listened to equally on any subject. Certainly not Canadian ‘geologists’ at any rate!

  32. Shawn Whelan says:

    PKD
    OK enough of the childish posts.
    Let’s have that AGW writeup.
    Explain the increase in Polar ice.

  33. Shawn Whelan says:

    I will not seriously debate you about Nazi Germany

    You won’t debate it because you have little knowledge of the subject. They didn’t call them the National Socialists Workers Party for nothing.

    I have been around politics since I was a little kid. A couple of my uncles were cabinet ministers, one federal and one provincial. Both socialists. They grew up during the depression in a single mother home with nine kids. I understand their beliefs. But times have changed.

  34. Phill says:

    “You won’t debate it because you have little knowledge of the subject. They didn’t call them the National Socialists Workers Party for nothing.”

    No that’s right they had to give them selves a name, the Berlin young Liberals just doesn’t have the same ring.

    What you know about anything, much less “Nazi Germany” would fit on the back of a postage stamp.

    ” I have been around politics since I was a little kid. ”

    When was that last week?

    ” A couple of my uncles were cabinet ministers, ”

    A couple of mine were cabinet makers.

    ” They grew up during the depression in a single mother home with nine kids.”

    So did thousands of other Australian family’s.some had nine kids of their own and sometimes two of somebody else’s.

    My family lived in a shoe box with ten kids three dogs and a partridge in a pear tree.

    Shawn let go of it, didn’t your dad tell ya to much masturbation is no good for you.

  35. Shawn Whelan says:

    When was that last week?

    ” A couple of my uncles were cabinet ministers, ”

    A couple of mine were cabinet makers.

    Well that is it in a nutshell.
    You likely know a lot more than me about making cabinets.
    But you know nothing about politiccs and economics.

    Have you actually read anything except a beer bottle label?

    You’re just representive of the typical simple minded voter. And I stress simple minded.

  36. Phill says:

    “But you know nothing about politiccs and economics.”

    Shawn I underestimated you! You have two dicks, nobody could be as silly as you playing with one.

  37. PKD says:

    Shawn – after your presistent LYING in previous AGW posts, I am not beholden to you for anything.

    My AGW post may be on Arctic ice, it may not – thats up to me to decide, not you.

    You have two dicks, nobody could be as silly as you playing with one.

    Heh, couldn’t agree more Phill! 🙂

  38. Iain Hall says:

    Can you just write the bloody thing PKD 🙄

  39. Phill says:

    ” Heh, couldn’t agree more Phill! :)”

    No worries PKD. I’ve got him pegged at about seventeen yrs old and I am serious.You can tell from his style!He aint got none h 🙂

  40. PKD says:

    Actually Iain if I do write on the ice I’ll probably wait to the end of the melt season – wouldn’t want to risk mistaking a few weeks weather for the climate like certain other people on here now would I? 😉

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