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Cultural sensitivity for all

I have been an atheist for my entire life, but generally I do not feel the need to try to convince others that my understanding of the universe is definitively correct(which of course it is 🙂 ). My default position is always that every individual is entitled to believe what they please as long as they don’t try to force their beliefs onto other people. It is sort of sadly amusing when you get a bunch leftists getting very hot under the collar about objections to a proposed Islamic school in Camden south of Sydney. It is actually rather annoying that the face of the objectors shown on the ABC and much quoted by the leftist commentators has been of the less articulate and the less well informed. The inner urban left just love to characterise the concerns of the objectors as “racism” (even though Islam is not a race) and their fears as evil xenophobia.

James Farrell’s piece at Club Troppo is a good example of how the left want to punish the communities that they don’t like for rejecting the advances of ones that they do. After putting an argument for a basicly secular education system he makes a snappy about face and advocated the imposition of the Islamic school on the people of Camden . I could not help but conclude that this is just to spite those he characterises as “Hansonite”.

Notwithstanding my dislike of religious schools, I hope that there is an appeal, and that Camden Council’s decision is overturned. In the short term, if we are to remain a liberal and tolerant society, we are going to have more Islamic schools rather than less. It will not prove possible to obstruct them all on planning grounds. But blocking Camden will just move the battle ground somewhere else; and the Camden protesters’ ugly tactics, having apparently worked, will lend legitimacy to more of the same.

James Farell

Just for a little perspective I quote from today’s SMH the stated reasons that the development application was actually rejected.

The council cited increased traffic and a lack of public transport among its concerns. Local police, the Roads and Traffic Authority and the NSW Department of Primary Industries opposed the proposed school on Burragorang Road in Cawdor.

Police found there was a likelihood of “major traffic collisions and traffic offences in or near the location”, while the department said that the lot was “valuable and limited” agricultural land.

SMH

I have sincere reservations about all types of “faith based” education, even the sort espoused in the secular state schools by those who are very keen to propagate the green religion to our children, but the far left seem to be too willing to make any concession to those wanting to propagate Islam even though Islam has so many values that are entirely antithetical to the secular values that the left is so keen champion. Just little things like the equality and autonomy of women or the existence of the secular state for starters which smacks of hypocrisy to me.

While the face of the objectors to this school shown on Four Corners was indeed a rather ill-informed and uneducated, ugly even, the rabid response to it from the left is no less ugly either. Seeking to punish the people of Camden ( by forcing acceptance of the school) because they are concerned about the nature of development in their communities is just plan spiteful nonsense; every person who lives in a community has a right to object to the proposed developments in the place where they live, even if their reasons are not ones that the left like. I am willing to bet that if someone wanted to build a bacon factory next next door to a Mosque in Lakemba the left would not be denouncing the inevitable Muslim protests that would follow, they would probably be shouting the arguement about “cultural sensitivity” instead.

Well how about a little cultural sensitivity for the people of Camden?

Cheers Comrades

😉


11 Comments

  1. James Farrell says:

    ‘…just to spite those he characterises as “red necks”’

    Ande where did I do that?

  2. Iain Hall says:

    Fair enough James I concede that you did not use the term “red neck” so I have changed the post to say “Hansonite” instead.

    Welcome to my blog BTW 😉

  3. James Farrell says:

    Thank you, Iain.

  4. MM says:

    “even though Islam has so many values that are entirely antithetical to the secular values”.

    Islam has 1.2 billion followers. Australian Muslims come from over 60 different countries. Which Islam are you talking about?

  5. Izzy says:

    Iain,
    You are drawing a long bow comparing rednecks (there I said it) with Muslins perhaps objecting to a bacon factory being built next door to a mosque, and please don’t tell me you buy into the whole traffic bullshit.
    I am not from the far left but I have a major issue with the way the redneck of Camden are behaving.
    Your article seems to me more like a dig at the left rather than a defence of the people of Camden. Frankly there are easier and better things to have a dig at the left about.

  6. Iain Hall says:

    MM
    check out the posts here that critique Islam there are lots of things in that faith that are worthy of criticism no matter where its adherents come from.

    Izzy
    hypotheticals always draw long bows but I wanted to make the point that what is objectionable to one community is determined by context and that the left is very selective about the causes it gets excited about.

    welcome to my blog folks

  7. Mondo Rock says:

    person who lives in a community has a right to object to the proposed developments in the place where they live, even if their reasons are not ones that the left like

    The media also has a right to use the reasoning being applied by some of the more vocal opponents to highlight the fact that an undercurrent of base racial and religious intolerance still exists in many Australian communities.

    Your main point of contention, Iain, seems to be that the media have chosen the ‘wrong’ community to highlight. We both know that if they had shown an expose on intolerance towards outsiders amongst Muslim populations you’d be hailing their work to anyone who’d listen.

  8. Iain Hall says:

    Mondo your characterisation of my argument is total bollocks.

    I live in a small community and I actually understand what it is to feel invaded by development and it is that which I draw on here. While the people who have been the face of this issue according to the very biased Media are undoubtedly uneducated yobs I very much doubt that the majority of objectors to this project, or the decision makers in the council are acting from such motivations.
    I find it strange that so many inner urban Lefties can in one breath denounce the suburban sprawl but then complain that a regional council is trying to preserve the rural ambiance of its district. In fact I would have thought that you should be right behind any attempt to prevent the alienation of productive agricultural land for any sort of development. Ah that’s right the proposed developers want to build a private school…

  9. 2G4E2L1A says:

    “Islam has so many values that are entirely antithetical to the secular values that the left is so keen champion. Just little things like the equality and autonomy of women or the existence of the secular state for starters which smacks of hypocrisy to me.”

    – Iain,

    Australia is not secular, it is recognized as a “Judeo-Christian” state, a republic could remedy this issue. Although I’m not sure Camden would want that to change, seeing as the last data released in 2006; 38,875 people in Camden profess to identify as Christian, 5,576, No religion, 1,053 non-christian, Islam 402, Hinduism 162 and other religions 118, Judaism sitting at 20. (reference http://www.id.com.au/profile/Default.aspx?id=207)

    Perhaps drawing a distinction between “Islamism” the politicization of the religion by fundementalists such as Bin Laden, and “Islam” the culture, religion and old world view is much needed in your analysis. A good book, “The Challenge of Fundamentalism: Political Islam and the New World Disorder” by Bassam Tibi discusses how islamic fundamentalism is in fact antithetical the teachings of the Quaran that uphold values of equality of women and their importance in the islamic culture, or to pursue islamic world domination.

    Your damaging allegations and demonization of a whole culture is inflamatory. Islam is a civilization and culture, an old world view, but a world view nevertheless.

    kind regards
    2421

  10. 2G4E2L1A says:

    Ian,

    Firstly, Australia is not secular, it is a Judeo-Christan state. Check out the Australian Preamble or the previous governments citizenship test. I am not sure that Camden would want to actually change this as there are 38,875 christians in comparisson to 5576 non-religious, and a mere 1053 non-christian of which there are only 402 muslims… Odds are if Camden were a reflection of Australian society(…?) The odds of becoming a secular state are next to nothing.

    Secondly, A book by Bassam Tibi, called “The challenge of fundamentalism”, it dicusses the challenge that “Islamism” the policitized religion by fundamentalists such as Bin Laden to Islamacize the world poses to “Islam” the religion, culture and civilization. Two very differnt concept mobilized by two very different groups of people.

    The former, born out of and a reaction to modernity and western influence in the middle east and the latter an old world view but a world view nevertheless that has contributed to the way we here in west view the world, the language of maths and science, and its contribution of arts and literature.

    Cultural Sensitivity, I agree, but perhaps cultural education for all is what’s more at hand.

    Kind regards
    2G4E2L1A

  11. Iain Hall says:

    2G4E2L1A ,

    “Islam has so many values that are entirely antithetical to the secular values that the left is so keen champion. Just little things like the equality and autonomy of women or the existence of the secular state for starters which smacks of hypocrisy to me.”

    – Iain,

    Australia is not secular, it is recognized as a “Judeo-Christian” state, a republic could remedy this issue. Although I’m not sure Camden would want that to change, seeing as the last data released in 2006; 38,875 people in Camden profess to identify as Christian, 5,576, No religion, 1,053 non-christian, Islam 402, Hinduism 162 and other religions 118, Judaism sitting at 20. (reference http://www.id.com.au/profile/Default.aspx?id=207)

    utter rubbish! the state may have a Christian heritage but it IS secular.

    Perhaps drawing a distinction between “Islamism” the politicization of the religion by fundementalists such as Bin Laden, and “Islam” the culture, religion and old world view is much needed in your analysis. A good book, “The Challenge of Fundamentalism: Political Islam and the New World Disorder” by Bassam Tibi discusses how Islamic fundamentalism is in fact antithetical the teachings of the Quaran that uphold values of equality of women and their importance in the Islamic culture, or to pursue Islamic world domination.

    I constantly make such a distinction in most of the posts that I write about Islam

    Your damaging allegations and demonization of a whole culture is inflammatory. Islam is a civilisation and culture, an old world view, but a world view nevertheless.

    What damaging allegations?
    What demonization?

    Odds are if Camden were a reflection of Australian society(…?) The odds of becoming a secular state are next to nothing.

    Camden is a local district and you are right it will never be a state, secular or otherwise 🙄

    Secondly, A book by Bassam Tibi, called “The challenge of fundamentalism”, it discusses the challenge that “Islamism” the policitized religion by fundamentalists such as Bin Laden to Islamacize the world poses to “Islam” the religion, culture and civilisation. Two very different concept mobilised by two very different groups of people.

    As I said earlier I constantly make the distinction between the Islamists and the more nominal followers of the Islamic faith.

    The former, born out of and a reaction to modernity and western influence in the middle east and the latter an old world view but a world view nevertheless that has contributed to the way we here in west view the world, the language of maths and science, and its contribution of arts and literature.

    The trouble for all followers of the Islamic faith is that unlike Christianity it is immutable and that makes it ill-equipped for modernity and the achievements of which you are so proud have not been built upon for hundreds of years…

    Cultural Sensitivity, I agree, but perhaps cultural education for all is what’s more at hand.

    Sorry but I don’t quite get what you mean here , please clarify

    Kind regards
    2G4E2L1A

    “secret agent man,
    secret agent man .
    they’ve given him a number but taken away his name…

    Sorry but your nom de plume is the stupidest I have seen for a long time 😉

    Cheers
    and welcome to my blog

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