Home » Blogging » It’s “Game Over” As Treasury Intervention Shreds Rudd’s Credibility

It’s “Game Over” As Treasury Intervention Shreds Rudd’s Credibility

Iain Hall:

Thank s very much for putting the argument so clearly and consistently Yale its been clear to me for ages that Rudd has been following the Anna Bligh course and all I am waiting for now is the vid from Rudd begging the voters not to give Abbott too much power. Its a sad end to a very sad government but far from unexpected.

Originally posted on The Red And The Blue:

THE FINAL BLOW to Kevin Rudd’s credibility was delivered last night, as the department heads of Treasury and Finance stunningly rebuked Labor’s claim of a “black hole” in Coalition costings; Labor’s charges have been shown to be dishonest, and as a result the election race is now over, bar the counting.

It is now safe to say — barring some stellar and monumental gaffe by the Liberals, the prospect of which defies belief — that the ALP has lost this election; the Liberal Party will be elected on 7 September, probably by a wide margin, and yesterday made it a formality.

After months spruiking baseless claims about Coalition costings — most notably that there was a $70 billion shortfall in them — the ALP yesterday hit the brick wall rigorous press scrutiny should have presented: a rebuff, in unequivocal terms from a source of great integrity, of the veracity of…

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25 Comments

  1. James says:

    Rudd, Bowen and Wong have been caught out lying. They should resign immediately, not wait for the election. The real fraudster is Labor.

    The lights would have been burning late in the lodge last night while they worked out the spin to try and get out of the hole they have dug for themselves.

    I think the intervention in the election campaign last night by the heads of the departments of Treasury and Finance — a development without precedent — has exploded the last hope Rudd and Labor have clung to: frightening the bejesus out of people that nasty Liberals would cut government spending “to the bone” and induce a recession that would cost jobs.

    The this morning: Bowen stands by black hole claims

    LABOR has denied lying over claims of a $10 billion black hole in the coalition’s costings, with Treasurer Chris Bowen declaring “We stand by every word”.

    Asked on Friday if Labor had lied about the black hole, Mr Bowen said: “Absolutely not”.

    “And can I say we stand by every word that we said yesterday,” Mr Bowen told the Seven Network.

    “We said this yesterday very clearly, we asked treasury and finance to cost these policies before the election was called, and that’s what treasury and finance confirmed yesterday.”

    That’s in fact NOT what they said yesterday. They gave the impression that these were this weeks figures and have been caught with their pants down. The spin doctors are in over-drive.

    http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae179/jeff_dean1/625443_486015918155419_33070630_n.jpg

  2. James says:

    And now a word from the wonderful world of ‘Greenland’, from you know., those people who would send us all back to live in the stone age. The little green women who would cut all income and then spend it.

    AUSTRALIAN Greens leader Christine Milne has described the furore over Labor’s $10 billion policy black hole claim as a distraction.

    Prime Minister Kevin Rudd based the claim on previous advice from the Parliamentary Budget Office and Treasury.

    But the heads of Treasury and Finance distanced themselves from Labor’s statements, saying they had never assessed any coalition policies.

    Senator Milne says the “debacle” has distracted from the coalition’s refusal to release its policy costings.

    “They could clear all this up in two minutes if they actually released the policies,” she told reporters in Hobart.

    Senator Milne accused Opposition Leader Tony Abbott of trashing the pre-election policy costings system.

    “Tony Abbott has just torn up the charter of budget honesty,” she said.

    While her sharpest criticism was reserved for Mr Abbott, Senator Milne said Labor should have been clearer on how it arrived at the $10 billion figure.

    The Greens leader also savaged Mr Abbott’s education plan, including a move towards more independent public schools.

    “No one knows what Tony Abbott would do to school funding and the messaging he is sending out is frightening,” Senator Milne said.

    Her comments came as the Greens launched a $46.5 million four-year school nutrition policy.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/black-hole-furore-a-distraction-milne/story-e6frfku9-1226707425696#ixzz2dPrFHOq0

  3. Ray Dixon says:

    I think the intervention in the election campaign last night by the heads of the departments of Treasury and Finance — a development without precedent — has exploded the last hope Rudd and Labor have clung to

    I absolutely agree with that. Where I differ is:

    1. It doesn’t alter the fact that the coalition’s costings have a gianormous black hole.
    2. The Dept heads were out of order in issuing press statements during a political campaign.

    The fact is that Labor ran the coaltion’s publicised cost savings via Treasury and the results announced by Rudd & Bowen were correct. It’s unfortunate that the heads saw fit to draw a pedantic distinction when none was necessary and, as a result of that, the government has been damaged. Irreversibly. Although they were likely to lose anyway.

    You guys – especially cheerleader boy James – are now engaging in overkill. Ease up boys.

  4. James says:

    Bloody Hell Ray, can’t you read: THEY, TREASUERY AND THE OTHER PUBLIC SERVICE BODIES HAVEN’T SEEN FIGURES TO EVAULUATE, yet RUDD, Bowen and Wong stood there indicating they were basing there so called facts, which you still seem to believe, on modelling by Treasury etc. which they weren’t.

    The only ones talking about black holes are you and your discredited Labor bed-mates.

    And don’t give me any lip about costing should be presented now. Remember Labors presentation of election costings at 4.59pm the Friday before an election?

    And apart from that Rudd would just steel policies and claim them as his anyway if too much is released too soon.

  5. Ray Dixon says:

    No need to shout, James. You’re not at a football game barracking for your team.

    Anyone who didn’t realise that the figures Rudd referred to were not submitted by the coalition is living under a rock. Rudd didn’t imply that Treasury had assessed the coalition’s submitted figures because, at that stage, no figures had been submitted. And everyone knew that. He was clearly talking about the publicised figures. There was no need for Rudd to make that distinction because it was a given. Likewise there was no need for the Dept heads to make their distinction.

    Now I suggest you calm down lest you blow a gasket. The pressure is still on Abbott & Hockey to fully explain their costings. Rudd’s tried to pre-empt it but, unfortunately, he’s had an official wrongly speak out during an election campaign. The same official that Abbott & Hockey said they wouldn’t trust with their costings. Their reaction now (and yours) is nothing more than a cheerleader at a footy game booing the other side.

  6. Iain Hall says:

    Ray

    Anyone who didn’t realise that the figures Rudd referred to were not submitted by the coalition is living under a rock. Rudd didn’t imply that Treasury had assessed the coalition’s submitted figures because, at that stage, no figures had been submitted. And everyone knew that. He was clearly talking about the publicised figures. There was no need for Rudd to make that distinction because it was a given. Likewise there was no need for the Dept heads to make their distinction.

    That is straight out of the “Great big book of Labor spin” and its a load of cobblers Just admit it Rudd has royally fucked up here and made a grave misjudgement that that has been called out, not by Tony Abbott but by the top minions in Treasury and Finance who, quite rightly do not wish to be associated with such a gross misrepresentation of the work of their office.

  7. Ray Dixon says:

    Iain, answer this:

    When YOU heard Rudd say Treasury costings confirms there is a “$10 billion black hole” in the coalition’s costings did YOU think that Treasury had seen the costings actually submitted by the opposition?

    If you say “yes”, you’re lying because YOU (and everyone else) knew that the Opposition had not submitted its costings to Treasury at that stage. Ergo, it is entirely self evident that Rudd was referring to figures the government submitted based on the Opposition’s publicised figures.

    What’s happened here is the Dept heads have misinterpreted what Rudd said and jumped in to qualify what they didn’t need to qualify.

    The only “fuck up” Rudd has made, if any, is not making it clearer that the costings were taken from the Opposition’s public statements, not from submitted figures. Then again, he probably didn’t forsee that some idiot bureaucrat would effectively breach his own code of conduct and enter the political debate.

    I agree it has backfired on Rudd at the moment but:

    a) There is still – based on the only figures that have been costed – a giant black hole in the coaltion’s figures.

    b) Abbott is still required to submit his costings.

    A week is a long time in politics, Iain, and you can bet your life that when Abbott finally does submit his costings – and when Treasury analyses them – the boot will be on the other foot.

  8. Tony says:

    You guys are dancing around the major issue here.

    Everyone is asking a question, and criticising the rhetorical answers from both parties, without (and forgive the shouting, but I have been asking the same question, on these pages for bloody weeks, with all you guys just laughing at it ?)

    ACTUALLY ASKING THE QUESTION THAT NEEDS TO BE ASKED, THAT THEY HAVE BEEN DODGING !

    FFS YOU BLOODY CLOWNS, WHAT IS THE ACTUAL TRUE SITUATION, WITH OUR CURRENT BUDGET BALANCE ?

    You won’t hear the anwser either guys.
    Swanny, Wong and co have been suspiciously quiet about this question since even before the campaign started.
    That is the answer, we all need to know, the one that will make political promises from either party in this campaign, irrelevent, and will sink Labor quicker than the Titanic.

  9. Iain Hall says:

    OK Ray

    When YOU heard Rudd say Treasury costings confirms there is a “$10 billion black hole” in the coalition’s costings did YOU think that Treasury had seen the costings actually submitted by the opposition?

    I pay very little attention to anything that Rudd says These days but as Rudd’s claim came out the same day as Hockey’s appearance at the Press club where he outlined 31 billion in savings quite naturally I made the connection between the two announcements.

    If you say “yes”, you’re lying because YOU (and everyone else) knew that the Opposition had not submitted its costings to Treasury at that stage. Ergo, it is entirely self evident that Rudd was referring to figures the government submitted based on the Opposition’s publicised figures.

    I may on occasion be in error Ray but I do not tell lies about politics

    What’s happened here is the Dept heads have misinterpreted what Rudd said and jumped in to qualify what they didn’t need to qualify.

    Not so they have seen that Rudd was deliberately misrepresenting their earlier analysis as being contemporaneous with the latest opposition announcement

    The only “fuck up” Rudd has made, if any, is not making it clearer that the costings were taken from the Opposition’s public statements, not from submitted figures. Then again, he probably didn’t forsee that some idiot bureaucrat would effectively breach his own code of conduct and enter the political debate.

    That is a pretty big fuck up by any measure Ray and one that is most dishonest. If you don’t think it has fatally wounded Rudd you have worse confirmation bias than I though possible.

    I agree it has backfired on Rudd at the moment but:

    This is Rudd:
    .

    a) There is still – based on the only figures that have been costed – a giant black hole in the coaltion’s figures.

    Unfounded Labor spin Ray

    b) Abbott is still required to submit his costings.

    Given their track record do you really trust anything Labor says about the opposition’s costings? after Rudd’s fuck up no one will care what he says about Abbott’s numbers.

    A week is a long time in politics, Iain, and you can bet your life that when Abbott finally does submit his costings – and when Treasury analyses them – the boot will be on the other foot.

    Face it Ray Labor are heading for a landslide loss that will make Queensland look like a great result.

  10. Iain Hall says:

    Tony
    what it boils down to on all sides is very dependant upon the underlying assumptions and without those numbers are meaningless.

  11. Tony says:

    Without going through your rebuttal to Ray above, line by line, I agree whole heartedly with what you are saying.
    Spot on !

    what it boils down to on all sides is very dependant upon the underlying assumptions and without those numbers are meaningless.

    Thank you,
    finally, someone else who can see through the fog that is labor’s tactics.

    Never mind how Abbott paying for his promises, how the hell is labor going to not only pay for the massive debt it is gong to leave behind, but also their b/s promises that they are currently waving, in front of our faces ?

    Sorry Ruddy, push your hair out of your eyes again, and deal with that ?
    Again, sorry mate, but we ain’t collectively that stupid now. Not buying it, not for a second !
    Hope you enjoy your ambassadorship to Shanghai mate ?

  12. Ray Dixon says:

    Come on, Iain, you knew full well that Rudd was not referring to submitted coalition figures. And you knew full well that Hockey had not submitted them. Or you should have known.

    And you SHOULD have listened to Rudd more carefully because he clearly stated the Treasury costings he referred to were from BEFORE the announcement of the election, so how the hell could they be the coalition’s submitted figures?

    This is just a beat-up and will be old news by Monday. Then it’s Abbott’s turn to deliver and be scrutinised. Heat’s on the coalition for the next 7 days, mate. It’s theirs to lose … and it’s still possible Abbott could do a Hewson yet*.

    (* Although I agree it’s not likely and a landslide looks more on the cards)

  13. Iain Hall says:

    Ray

    Come on, Iain, you knew full well that Rudd was not referring to submitted coalition figures. And you knew full well that Hockey had not submitted them. Or you should have known.

    As I said I was not paying that much attention to Rudd’s ranting and you know what neither are most voters in this election, Rudd and Labor Have just lost all credibility. So when I heard of teh latest black hole claim I just rolled my eyes heavenward and thought “more Labor bullshit” :roll:

    And you SHOULD have listened to Rudd more carefully because he clearly stated the Treasury costings he referred to were from BEFORE the announcement of the election, so how the hell could they be the coalition’s submitted figures?

    Well I was actually out for most of the day taking my boy to the doctor because he has a chest infection and a touch of asthma which was a darn sight more important to me than Rudd’s inane blathering.

    This is just a beat-up and will be old news by Monday. Then it’s Abbott’s turn to deliver and be scrutinised. Heat’s on the coalition for the next 7 days, mate. It’s theirs to lose … and it’s still possible Abbott could do a Hewson yet*.

    Abbott is being VERY cautious and that makes perfect sense to me. but It will be interesting to see how Rudd goes on Q&A on Monday night my guess is that he won’t do as well as the true believers are hoping for.

  14. Ray Dixon says:

    Well if you don’t listen to Rudd, Iain, you’re just being blinkered. You’re only hearing what you want to hear. …. why did I think otherwise?

  15. James says:

    And they continue to flap their jaws and continue to dig a deeper hole for themselves. Rudd, Wong, Bowen they’ve lost the plot.

  16. Tony says:

    Well if you don’t listen to Rudd, Iain, you’re just being blinkered. You’re only hearing what you want to hear. …. why did I think otherwise?

    I think you are being a bit unfair there Ray.
    I don’t think Iain (and anyone else for that matter), is blinkered, rather, the damage done to labor’s reputation, and overall image, was so devastating by Dullard, that even silver tongued Rudd has no hope of resurrecting that reputation in so far as the average swinging voter is concerned ?

    Even you have said you aren’t voting labor this time, so the damage done to the labor brand has been really death defying hasn’t it ?
    Labor’s credibility is gone, and no one believes what they are preaching any more in this campaign.
    That is their continual problem.

  17. Iain Hall says:


    Notice the part I highlighted form the Age? Rudd is very definitely giving the impression that the advice form Treasury and Finance refers to the costings just released by the Opposition. That is your smoking gun Ray and its really immune to any spin.

    Note too the disclaimer at the bottom of my screenshot which highlights the point I have been trying to make on the other thread. ;)

  18. Tony says:

    Shows just how desperate labor are in this non-campaign, and to just what lengths, they will go to, in an attempt to get the spying eyes away from their mistakes ?

    Kudos to the treasury guys, that stood up to no doubt unbelievable pressure from their labor overseers, and chose integrity rather than folding.

    Just another failed tactic by Rudd, to take attention away from the failures of his government ?

  19. Ray Dixon says:

    Yesterday’s news, Iain. Heat’s now on Abbott to produce.

  20. GD says:

    Give it up Ray. Abbott told Jon Faine on the ABC this morning that the full costings would be released later next week.

    Just as Labor did in 2007 and 2010 btw.

  21. Ray Dixon says:

    It was yesterday that Abbott was on Jon Faine, GD. You need to keep up. And in 2007, Labor was not proposing massive cost cuts or unfunded policies like Abbott is. As for 2010, Labor was in government then so their costings were already a matter of budgetary record. This is different – Abbott has promised a range of massive cuts and, as yet, he hasn’t told us what they are. Additionally, he is promising a huge PPL scheme and, as yet, he hasn’t put his costings forward for scrutiny. The “end of next week” is too late and, mark my words, he will be put under extreme pressure by the media this week. He’s had the luxury of all the scrutiny being on Rudd but that’s now run its race and is yesterday’s news. Abbott, as it stands, will win in a canter, but there is still the final hurdle of this week to get over,

  22. Iain Hall says:

    Ray
    The costings issue won’t make a speck of difference, Rudd is gone in fact I doubt that he will even hold his seat. As for election promises Abbott’s are very modest and at least he won’t have this one hanging over his head:

  23. Ray Dixon says:

    But Abbott will have this one, “The Paid Parental Leave Scheme is fully funded by big business” hanging on his.

  24. […] It’s “Game Over” As Treasury Intervention Shreds Rudd’s Credibility (iainhall.wordpress.com) […]

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