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Gillard’s downfall….

Christopher Pyne was suggesting that the Gillard saga was beginning to look like “downfall” and here we have some wag making it so.

Hat tip tip to Bolta on this one

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66 Comments

  1. Brian says:

    I have never found those things particularly funny and that one is especially underwhelming. But I’ve no doubt that Bolt and his worshippers are cackling over it like tickled hens.

  2. Iain Hall says:

    They do have a certain Genre charm Brian.
    However I will admit that they work better when the person being Lampooned is a bloke because imagining Gillard as the dictator is a bit of a stretch

  3. I knew the minute Pyne made a Hitler reference he’d be forced to apologise for it. What does he think this is, a free country?! The climate of censorship and outrage that has appeared since the ALP took office has made it a lot easier to imagine Gillard as a dictator, though being a socialist she’s closer to Stalin than Hitler.

  4. Tom R says:

    They are not asking him not to say it Plato, just to apologise for drawing the comparison between this Government and the 3rd Reich, which, in anyone’s language, is pretty rank.

    Of course, he can just leave it out there, and be seen for the nasty, gutter-sniping little man he is. ;)

  5. Iain Hall says:

    Tom
    I recovered your comment from the spam bin because you raise an interesting point about the comparison between the Gillard government and the final days of the Reich, You see I agree that in many ways the Nazis were quite different to the contemporary Labor party,Firstly there was no substantive dissent or division between Herr Snicklegruber’s regime even as the walls of Berlin was tumbling around them, The Rudd factor alone shows that Gillard has more enemies within. Further the National socialists had a far more effective propaganda machine than the Labor party with an almost complete monopoly on the means of communication. However there are similarities when you consider the closing stages of the war which found the spin being almost universally disbelieved as the reality of defeat could no longer be denied. Finally the “Downfall” comparison is apt because like the late leader of the third Reich Gillard is arrogant and disconnected from the political realities and prone to bad decisions (attacking Russia, and the Carbon tax comes to mind) that come back to haunt her by opening up an unnecessary second front springs to my mind.

    On the whole you minions of the left are very Keen to to take offence by the connection but those of us with a better understanding of the Game of politics just laugh at your confected outrage as we know that just means you resent the truth rather than the supposed affront.

  6. Brian says:

    Oh give over, Iain. Trying to compare Julia Gillard to Adolf Hitler suggests either no understanding of history or an act of political bastardry, or both. They were nothing alike and have very little in common, other than being leaders of their country. There will always be prongs like “Plato” who want to make these silly comparisons; but I’m very surprised at you for giving them or their stupid theories oxygen.

    I have no issue with Pyne making the same comparisons either. If he wants to make a tit of himself, that’s his business; we shouldn’t be in the business of silencing him.

  7. Brian says:

    Also, you keep referring to these people called “the minions of the left” and telling us what they say and think. Yet I have never seen anyone here express those views. I’m not sure you are addressing or referring to with this term, which sounds suspiciously like a straw man.

  8. Richard Ryan says:

    AS for Hitler, he was also a Catholic like Tony Abbott. Heil Abbott.

  9. Richard Ryan says:

    And Joseph Stalin the Soviet dictator was also studying to become a Priest like Tony Abbott. Both lapsed seminarian’s. It is said, Stalin’s mother wished Joseph would have become a Priest. Imagine Abbott on the pulpit, on a Sunday with a sermon,’Stop the Boats”

  10. Iain Hall says:

    Brian

    Oh give over, Iain. Trying to compare Julia Gillard to Adolf Hitler suggests either no understanding of history or an act of political bastardry, or both.

    The downfall parodies work when the emotion of the German dialogue fits with the humorous subtitles, its not by any stretch a serious comparison its a JOKE.

    They were nothing alike and have very little in common, other than being leaders of their country.

    That I acknowledge in my comment Brian which was a sarcastic response to Tom

    There will always be prongs like “Plato” who want to make these silly comparisons; but I’m very surprised at you for giving them or their stupid theories oxygen.

    My comment was sarcasm Brian and aimed more at Tom’s sanctimonious comment than making any sort of serious comparison with Gillard.

    I have no issue with Pyne making the same comparisons either. If he wants to make a tit of himself, that’s his business; we shouldn’t be in the business of silencing him.

    Clearly Christopher Pyne was comparing Gillard to the Parodies rather than to the historical film that they are based upon and as such it is only those lacking any sense of humour who take offence.

    Also, you keep referring to these people called “the minions of the left” and telling us what they say and think. Yet I have never seen anyone here express those views. I’m not sure you are addressing or referring to with this term, which sounds suspiciously like a straw man.

    I have met Tom R elsewhere and my experience of his commentary leads me to consider him to be a follower of a far left ideology hence my descriptor, I consider you to be somewhat more moderate and closer to the centre.

  11. Richard Ryan says:

    Christopher Pyne would good in an SS uniform.

  12. Ray Dixon says:

    No Richard, Pyne would look better in a Hitler’s youth uniform.

  13. Brian says:

    My comment was sarcasm Brian and aimed more at Tom’s sanctimonious comment than making any sort of serious comparison with Gillard.

    Fair enough Iain. My first reading of your previous comment was that it engaged in seemingly earnest comparison, e.g. the carbon tax and Operation Barbarossa. Clearly it is ridiculous to liken Gillard to Hitler. It would be no less ridiculous to treat Abbott, Howard or George Bush in the same fashion.

    Clearly Christopher Pyne was comparing Gillard to the Parodies rather than to the historical film that they are based upon

    Actually it is quite clear that Pyne was referring to the film (and therefore Hitler himself) and not the parodies of it. Again, that is utterly ridiculous. But Pyne is a big lad and he can speak for and explain himself.

    I have met Tom R elsewhere and my experience of his commentary leads me to consider him to be a follower of a far left ideology hence my descriptor, I consider you to be somewhat more moderate and closer to the centre.

    Hence the problem with these “minions of the left” you keen referring to. The political Left and Right both contain great diversity and a multitude of positions on scores of different issues. I’m not sure if you’re referring to someone specific, or just dreaming of an imaginary “Leftie” you can take aim at.

  14. GD says:

    it is quite clear that Pyne was referring to the film (and therefore Hitler himself) and not the parodies of it.

    I don’t agree. The movie ‘Downfall’ was screened in 2004. It is unlikely that Pyne is remembering the film. Instead he is recalling, as most of us are, the many parodies made since. The parody shows a dictator out of control. Could there be a better analogy for our current government than this parody? It’s as if it was tailor-made for the downfall of the Rudd/Gillard sham of a government.

    I disagree with Iain about the gender of the dictator. As with the satire of John Clarke and Brian Dawes on the ABC, it doesn’t matter whether the character resembles the target, it is the spirit of the message that is relevant.

    Gillard is an out-of-control leader, now blaming everyone around her rather than taking responsibility for ousting Kevin Rudd and his fledgling government.

    Witness her emotive outburst at Tony Abbott when she should have been addressing the issue of the vile behaviour of the Speaker of the House.

    I can’t think of a more appropriate video to illustrate her failings than this spoof of ‘Downfall’.

  15. Brian says:

    This is exactly what Pyne said:

    “This government is starting to resemble a scene from Downfall,” Mr Pyne told reporters in Adelaide.

    And a day later:

    Mr Pyne said he was not comparing the Prime Minister to Hitler, but the chaos in the government was similar to a scene from Downfall. “If anybody else has taken offence at that, well of course I retract the statement.”

    There is no mention or even implication that he is referring to the parodies, and it is disingenuous or just plain dishonest to suggest otherwise.

  16. Richard Ryan says:

    Yeah-yeah, as Bolt would say “Still Not Sorry” Pyne another one who I have marked down on my hate list.

  17. Ray Dixon says:

    Let’s be realistic: I’m no fan of Gillard and the sooner she’s given the same treatment she dished out to Rudd (and the sooner Rudd is reinstated) the sooner we’ll return to some form of stable government (and so long to Swan, Burke, Conroy, Garrett and all the other Gillard suckholes). BUT, the implication Pyne has made is that she is, behind the scenes, ranting and raving at her own party members. He also implies she has a screw loose and is over-emotional. Nothing could be further from the truth – Gillard is as cold as ice, almost completely unemotional and simply never loses control of herself. She’s more like Steve Waugh than Adfolf Hitler, although not as successful.

  18. Iain Hall says:

    Richard, that list of yours must be pretty long care to share it?

  19. Iain Hall says:

    Ray don’t confuse Gillard’s public image as some one who “completely unemotional and simply never loses control of herself.” with the her underlying ineptitude and bad judgement calls (Nova Peris any one?) because beneath that cool exterior she is just has shambolic as Hitler in his final days.

  20. Ray Dixon says:

    She makes bad decisions, Iain, primarily because she makes decisions based on what she sees as good for herself. Case in point – get rid of a Rudd-supporting Senator and buy the unending loyalty of some naive novice with no experience (or clue) like Paris-Kneebone. Or fly-in Bob Carr to bolster her profile. But what evidence is there of her losing it behind the scenes? There’s none whatsoever and don’t you think if she’d as much as raised her voice in anger we’d have heard about it? There’s no comparison to the freakin’ lunatic Hitler.

  21. Iain Hall says:

    Ray I think that Gillard would be much more of a passive/aggressive character rather than a ranter but such people can be just as abusive and nasty as those who lose it all the time.

  22. Ray Dixon says:

    So she’s the opposite of Hitler? Thought so.

  23. Iain Hall says:

    Ranters or passive/aggressive abusers are more the same than they are opposites IMHO Ray

  24. Ray Dixon says:

    Where’s the evidence of Gillard being a passive/aggressive “abuser”, Iain? In my opinion, she has never displayed such characteristics. When, how, whom? Her rant against Abbott, the “misogynist” speech? That was a planned and clever (and open) political trick, that actually worked well for her (one of her few smart moves), but you’d hardly call it passively aggressive, more like politically smart and coldly executed.

  25. Brian says:

    So having claimed you were just being sarcastic, Iain is still belabouring the comparison between Gillard and Hitler. They are nothing alike and have nothing in common other than the fact they are/were national leaders and made bad judgement calls. And even then it is an insult to the intelligence to compare Gillard’s decisions to those of Hitler, a destructive and genocidal madman.

    Also, on what evidence do you base the view that Gillard is a “passive/aggressive ranter”? I’d be curious to know, because it sounds to me like this is confirmation bias kicking in.

  26. Richard Ryan says:

    My Hate List:(1) Adolf Hitler,(2) Andrew Bolt, (3)Christopher Pyne,(4) George Brandis,(5)Piers Akerman, (6)Tony Abbott, (7)Tim Blair, (8)John Howard, (9)Peter Reith, (10)Alan Jones,

  27. Iain Hall says:

    That is a rather weak list Richard and that fact that you cite Hitler who has been dead for longer than you have been alive shows me that you have just made it up on the spot.
    That is a hater fail in my book!
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  28. Ray Dixon says:

    Richard forgot Sophie.

  29. Iain Hall says:

    Ray That’s to be expected from you I suppose :roll:

  30. GD says:

    I thought I would be on your list, Richard :(

  31. Iain Hall says:

    I would love to know who is on Richard’s “love” list just for comparison…

  32. GD says:

    Stalin, Che Guevara, Osama bin Laden etc

    in Australia, Lee Rhiannon, SH-Y, Gillard, the Goose, Roxon, Bob Brown….

  33. Iain Hall says:

    Don’t forget Julian Assange GD!

  34. GD says:

    …and David Hicks.

    If we extend the list to music, I reckon RR just loves getting’ pumped to this peppy little number:

  35. Richard Ryan says:

    US forces get the nod to invade the Northern Terrority—lock up your wives, snigger-snigger.

  36. Richard Ryan says:

    No Foreign Troops On Australian Soil.

  37. Richard Ryan says:

    Will the Union Jack be replaced with the Stars and Stripes, on the Aussie Flag? As Keating would say, God help us.

  38. Iain Hall says:

    The sad thing about you Richard is that You really believe the left wing Memes that you sprout don’t you?

  39. Iain Hall says:

    Brian

    They are nothing alike and have nothing in common other than the fact they are/were national leaders and made bad judgement calls.

    That is a pretty big similarity if you ask me Brian ;)

    And even then it is an insult to the intelligence to compare Gillard’s decisions to those of Hitler, a destructive and genocidal madman.

    Personally I would not describe Hitler as a “madman” he was clearly a driven and evil man but he was much more of an example of the banality of evil that any sort of example of insanity.

    Also, on what evidence do you base the view that Gillard is a “passive/aggressive ranter”? I’d be curious to know, because it sounds to me like this is confirmation bias kicking in.

    Hmm just watch enough of her interviews when she is confronted on those aforementioned dodgy decisions and you will see it.

  40. Brian says:

    That is a pretty big similarity if you ask me Brian

    If being the leader of a mediocre national government makes you similar to Hitler, there are an awful lot of people like Hitler getting around.

    Personally I would not describe Hitler as a “madman” he was clearly a driven and evil man but he was much more of an example of the banality of evil that any sort of example of insanity.

    ‘Evil’ is a word I prefer to leave to novelists and Bible-thumpers because I don’t think it adequately describes people like HItler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini and their ilk. Hitler was certainly deranged though, made so by a number of factors, not least of which was his drug addiction. Very few historians suggest he was of sound mind, particularly in the 1940s when his pill-popping reached new heights.

    I have studied Hitler and his historiography for years and have a good idea of just how warped he was. It’s for that reason I despite the constant references to him, whenever a political leader does something unpopular or radical. I know it’s a cheap throwaway line most of the time but it’s still hogwash. And when you try to justify it (as I think you have done) then I think you do a disservice to the millions of victims of Nazism, who would have given all they had to live under Gillard instead of Hitler.

    Hmm just watch enough of her interviews when she is confronted on those aforementioned dodgy decisions and you will see it.

    I have, and I don’t.

  41. Iain Hall says:

    Brian

    If being the leader of a mediocre national government makes you similar to Hitler, there are an awful lot of people like Hitler getting around.

    The similarity is just that which you yourself identified now you seem to be furiously back pedaling

    ‘Evil’ is a word I prefer to leave to novelists and Bible-thumpers because I don’t think it adequately describes people like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini and their ilk.

    I take the attitude that “evil” is more apt that “madman”. While you may not think they “Evil” is adequate to describe their murderous villainy I can see little by way of alternatives to that term.

    Hitler was certainly deranged though, made so by a number of factors, not least of which was his drug addiction. Very few historians suggest he was of sound mind, particularly in the 1940s when his pill-popping reached new heights.

    That seems like excuse making to me especially when you consider that most of his Evil acts were conceived or began well before 1940.

    I have studied Hitler and his historiography for years and have a good idea of just how warped he was. It’s for that reason I despite the constant references to him, whenever a political leader does something unpopular or radical. I know it’s a cheap throwaway line most of the time but it’s still hogwash.

    Well lots of people like to invoke Satan by way of comparison when they see contemporary instances of political madness and in a secular age why is it surprising that we invoke a secular daemon like Hitler?

    And when you try to justify it (as I think you have done) then I think you do a disservice to the millions of victims of Nazism, who would have given all they had to live under Gillard instead of Hitler.

    The dead can’t care Brian and those who survive may well consider that Gillard is an evil of a substantially lesser magnitude but that still makes her a creature of the darkness doesn’t it?

    I have, and I don’t.

    Well Maybe we both have our own confirmation biases in full swing then ;)

  42. Brian says:

    The similarity is just that which you yourself identified now you seem to be furiously back pedaling

    I’m not back-pedalling from anything because I didn’t make the idiotic comparison in the first place.

    I take the attitude that “evil” is more apt that “madman”. While you may not think they “Evil” is adequate to describe their murderous villainy I can see little by way of alternatives to that term.

    “Evil” is a term of moral judgement, not of explanation. It’s a word for writers and God botherers. Ultimately it doesn’t tell us much. The problem with saying that World War II and the Holocaust happened because “Hitler was evil” simplifies and overlooks all the other causes and conditions that allowed these things to occur.

    That seems like excuse making to me especially when you consider that most of his Evil acts were conceived or began well before 1940.

    The Holocaust wasn’t conceived of until late 1941, Iain. As late as 1940 he was considering proposals to relocate the entire Jewish population to eastern Europe or Madagascar. As to the anti-Semitism in 1930s Germany, Hitler obviously took anti-Semitic laws to unprecedented extremes, but he neither invented Jew-hating or introduced it to Germany.

    The dead can’t care Brian and those who survive may well consider that Gillard is an evil of a substantially lesser magnitude but that still makes her a creature of the darkness doesn’t it?

    What a preposterous statement. I’ll assume you are taking the piss, because if you’re not then you’ve got serious problems with perception and perspective.

    Well Maybe we both have our own confirmation biases in full swing then

    Well I’m not hopping around comparing Australian politicians to genocidal dictators, so I suspect my judgement is a bit more sound.

  43. Richard Ryan says:

    For the record Christopher Pyne is a Roman Catholic as was Adolf Hitler. Now top that. Shalom.

  44. Iain Hall says:

    Adolph ceased being a Catholic once he became a demigod to the Nazis since he believed his own propaganda there was no way that he was going to share divinity with the Catholics, besides which he was a vegetarian and we all know that vegetarians are evil

  45. Richard Ryan says:

    I would not say no to a bit of human flesh myself—–I hear it is quite like pork–oink-oink.

  46. Iain Hall says:

    Brian

    I didn’t make the idiotic comparison in the first place.

    I realise that you think that Hitler Is not apt as a comparison to Gillard and if you are using a detail brush to pain the picture you have a point but I was looking at the matters with a 4″ brush in hand.

    “Evil” is a term of moral judgement, not of explanation. It’s a word for writers and God botherers. Ultimately it doesn’t tell us much. The problem with saying that World War II and the Holocaust happened because “Hitler was evil” simplifies and overlooks all the other causes and conditions that allowed these things to occur.

    What is wrong with making moral judgements about the Nazi Regime? Frankly I don’t think for the purposes of this discussion we need to look at the causes of WW2 or the political environment that caused and nurtured the rise of the the third Reich.

    The Holocaust wasn’t conceived of until late 1941, Iain. As late as 1940 he was considering proposals to relocate the entire Jewish population to eastern Europe or Madagascar. As to the anti-Semitism in 1930s Germany, Hitler obviously took anti-Semitic laws to unprecedented extremes, but he neither invented Jew-hating or introduced it to Germany.

    Brian as I am sure you know the Holocaust was not the only act of evil committed by the Nazis, they did lots of very reprehensible stuff, like killing the insane, homosexual, deformed and “inferior”.

    What a preposterous statement. I’ll assume you are taking the piss, because if you’re not then you’ve got serious problems with perception and perspective.

    The truth is that I am a great believer in sarcasm, delivered with earnest sincerity ;)

    Well I’m not hopping around comparing Australian politicians to genocidal dictators, so I suspect my judgement is a bit more sound.

    The thing about genocidal dictators is, even with their obvious tendency for mass killing, they can still be used as a source of comparison for other aspects of the way that they govern even to compare them with Australian Pollies.

  47. GD says:

    In other words, Brian lighten up, or in this case, loosen up.

  48. Ray Dixon says:

    No GD, comparing anyone to Hitler is a very long bow and, quite frankly, should be an instant debate loser. Godwin’s law mate.

  49. Brian says:

    What is wrong with making moral judgements about the Nazi Regime? Frankly I don’t think for the purposes of this discussion we need to look at the causes of WW2 or the political environment that caused and nurtured the rise of the the third Reich.

    There is nothing at all wrong with making moral judgements about anything, however moral judgements at their core simply consider whether something is right or wrong. It is more intelligent and indeed much safer to explain why something happened, rather than to attribute it to ‘good’ or ‘evil’. If you are going to compare modern politicians to Nazis then I think it is beholden on you to explain why.

    The thing about genocidal dictators is, even with their obvious tendency for mass killing, they can still be used as a source of comparison for other aspects of the way that they govern even to compare them with Australian Pollies.

    Sure. But to even suggest that the ALP governs like or uses the same methods of social control of the NSDAP is either wrong or an outright lie. If they did then they’d be in a stronger position than they are now.

    In other words, Brian lighten up, or in this case, loosen up.

    There is some considerable irony in a small group of people comparing an Australian PM to Adolf Hitler, then demanding that I “lighten up”. Frankly I don’t find Hitler or comparisons to him to be a joking matter.

  50. Iain Hall says:

    Brian

    I don’t find Hitler or comparisons to him to be a joking matter

    Sorry to tell you this but the NSDP has been the butt of jokes and humour since before WW2 and Long may it be so because if we get too dour and serious about them all of the time we give them far more credibility than they deserve.
    You see its human nature to make jokes about evil and those who commit it.

  51. Brian says:

    And I’m sorry to tell you this, Iain, but you are being intellectually dishonest. There is nothing wrong with parodying or making fun of Nazism; Chaplin, Mel Brooks and Tarantino have all done it to great effect. But nobody in this thread, you included, has been doing that. You’ve just been using Hitler and his lot as a stick to beat Gillard and the ALP. Godwin’s Law was invented specifically for people like you who use this tawdry little debating tactic.

  52. Iain Hall says:

    Brian

    And I’m sorry to tell you this, Iain, but you are being intellectually dishonest. There is nothing wrong with parodying or making fun of Nazism; Chaplin, Mel Brooks and Tarantino have all done it to great effect.

    Didn’t you just say :

    I don’t find Hitler or comparisons to him to be a joking matter

    Seems to me that you are having a bit of a “doublethink” moment here Brian.

    But nobody in this thread, you included, has been doing that. You’ve just been using Hitler and his lot as a stick to beat Gillard and the ALP. Godwin’s Law was invented specifically for people like you who use this tawdry little debating tactic.

    Brian I would argue that “Godwin’s law” does not apply here because the underlying premise of this post is all about the comparison with “Downfall” and that Godwin requires a couple of prerequisites that are just not here, firstly it requires that there be political discussion that has no valid reason the invoke the spectre of the third Reich, this post is entirely about the making of such a comparison by Christopher Pyne so Godwin can’t be invoked about my post. Secondly Godwin’s law is an observational instrument that is meant as a humorous aside and not a debating “gotcha”.
    Finally I have repeatedly qualified my comparisons and explained that I am being sarcastic rather than deadly serious, even though there are some minor but valid points of comparison that even you acknowledge.

  53. Brian says:

    Seems to me that you are having a bit of a “doublethink” moment here

    There is no contradiction. It should be quite clear that I was referring to idiotic political comparisons with Hitler, not with legitimate parody or satire by clever people.

    Brian I would argue that “Godwin’s law” does not apply here

    Iain, it applied here from the ‘get go’ when Pyne made the comparison and most sensible people condemned him for it, then you breathed new life into it by trying to substantiate the comparison.

    The point of Godwin’s Law is to highlight when lazy and intellectually stunted debaters engage in hyperbolic exaggeration by likening their political opponents to Hitler. Pyne did it and you’ve followed suit. It applies perfectly.

    There are some minor but valid points of comparison that even you acknowledge.

    Yes, Hitler and Gillard are/were both national leaders. That’s about where the comparison ends. Everything else you’ve produced here is nothing more than an association fallacy.

  54. GD says:

    Do you ever have any fun, Brian?

  55. Iain Hall says:

    This might interest you Brian, from my point of view it just proves that Hitler was evil, just like all other vegetarians!

  56. Brian says:

    Do you ever have any fun, Brian?

    And if some left wing blogger started comparing Tony Abbott to Adolf Hitler, I’m sure you would chortling right along with him. Sure you would.

    “Hitler was vegetarian, Hitler was evil, therefore all vegetarians are evil”? Sounds like another association fallacy to me Iain.

  57. Richard Ryan says:

    Adolf Hitler and Tony Abbott both Roman Catholics, pedophiles are also Catholic priests. Abbott is a “sex bonker,” had plenty of sex before marriage.

  58. Iain Hall says:

    Brian
    You have it wrong, Vegetarians are evil,therefore as Hitler was a vegetarian he was clearly evil :)

    As for making Jokes about Abbott, well I can laugh at them as much as you do if they are funny.

  59. Ray Dixon says:

    I think we should start comparing Abbott to an ape. After all, he looks, walks and talks like one.

  60. Stu says:

    For anyone “over” the Downfall parodies – an innocuous fairy tale?

  61. GD says:

    I’d rather be governed by a planet, err, parliament, of apes than the clowns we have now.

  62. Iain Hall says:

    Actually Ray I reckon that Tony looks more like Chuck Heston than an ape but as you brought the subject up I can’t help but think that this fits if you imagine the thing “blown to hell” is Australia’s financial situation…

  63. GD says:

    excellent! :) both Heston and the fairytale

  64. Ray Dixon says:

    Heston, ape, Abbott …. what’s the difference?

  65. Brian says:

    ‘Planet of the Apes’ is one of my favourite movies, please don’t besmirch it by comparing to any politician. In other words, “Get your filthy paws of it”.

    Iain, I very much doubt that vegetarians are evil. However after the eye fillet with red wine reduction that I had on the weekend, I am certain that they are deprived of the good things in life. The lentil burgers and mushroom protein just don’t cut it for mine.

  66. Iain Hall says:

    Brian
    I have ben taking the piss out of Vegetarians for years and my insisting that they are evil is part of that.
    Having said that I agree that they are missing out on the joys of a perfectly cooked steak!

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