Christopher Pyne was suggesting that the Gillard saga was beginning to look like “downfall” and here we have some wag making it so.
Hat tip tip to Bolta on this one
Cheers Comrades
Gillard’s political strategy in action
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Gillard’s downfall….
I have never found those things particularly funny and that one is especially underwhelming. But I’ve no doubt that Bolt and his worshippers are cackling over it like tickled hens.
They do have a certain Genre charm Brian.
However I will admit that they work better when the person being Lampooned is a bloke because imagining Gillard as the dictator is a bit of a stretch
I knew the minute Pyne made a Hitler reference he’d be forced to apologise for it. What does he think this is, a free country?! The climate of censorship and outrage that has appeared since the ALP took office has made it a lot easier to imagine Gillard as a dictator, though being a socialist she’s closer to Stalin than Hitler.
They are not asking him not to say it Plato, just to apologise for drawing the comparison between this Government and the 3rd Reich, which, in anyone’s language, is pretty rank.
Of course, he can just leave it out there, and be seen for the nasty, gutter-sniping little man he is.
Tom
I recovered your comment from the spam bin because you raise an interesting point about the comparison between the Gillard government and the final days of the Reich, You see I agree that in many ways the Nazis were quite different to the contemporary Labor party,Firstly there was no substantive dissent or division between Herr Snicklegruber’s regime even as the walls of Berlin was tumbling around them, The Rudd factor alone shows that Gillard has more enemies within. Further the National socialists had a far more effective propaganda machine than the Labor party with an almost complete monopoly on the means of communication. However there are similarities when you consider the closing stages of the war which found the spin being almost universally disbelieved as the reality of defeat could no longer be denied. Finally the “Downfall” comparison is apt because like the late leader of the third Reich Gillard is arrogant and disconnected from the political realities and prone to bad decisions (attacking Russia, and the Carbon tax comes to mind) that come back to haunt her by opening up an unnecessary second front springs to my mind.
On the whole you minions of the left are very Keen to to take offence by the connection but those of us with a better understanding of the Game of politics just laugh at your confected outrage as we know that just means you resent the truth rather than the supposed affront.
Oh give over, Iain. Trying to compare Julia Gillard to Adolf Hitler suggests either no understanding of history or an act of political bastardry, or both. They were nothing alike and have very little in common, other than being leaders of their country. There will always be prongs like “Plato” who want to make these silly comparisons; but I’m very surprised at you for giving them or their stupid theories oxygen.
I have no issue with Pyne making the same comparisons either. If he wants to make a tit of himself, that’s his business; we shouldn’t be in the business of silencing him.
Also, you keep referring to these people called “the minions of the left” and telling us what they say and think. Yet I have never seen anyone here express those views. I’m not sure you are addressing or referring to with this term, which sounds suspiciously like a straw man.
AS for Hitler, he was also a Catholic like Tony Abbott. Heil Abbott.
And Joseph Stalin the Soviet dictator was also studying to become a Priest like Tony Abbott. Both lapsed seminarian’s. It is said, Stalin’s mother wished Joseph would have become a Priest. Imagine Abbott on the pulpit, on a Sunday with a sermon,’Stop the Boats”
Brian
The downfall parodies work when the emotion of the German dialogue fits with the humorous subtitles, its not by any stretch a serious comparison its a JOKE.
That I acknowledge in my comment Brian which was a sarcastic response to Tom
My comment was sarcasm Brian and aimed more at Tom’s sanctimonious comment than making any sort of serious comparison with Gillard.
Clearly Christopher Pyne was comparing Gillard to the Parodies rather than to the historical film that they are based upon and as such it is only those lacking any sense of humour who take offence.
I have met Tom R elsewhere and my experience of his commentary leads me to consider him to be a follower of a far left ideology hence my descriptor, I consider you to be somewhat more moderate and closer to the centre.
Christopher Pyne would good in an SS uniform.
No Richard, Pyne would look better in a Hitler’s youth uniform.
Fair enough Iain. My first reading of your previous comment was that it engaged in seemingly earnest comparison, e.g. the carbon tax and Operation Barbarossa. Clearly it is ridiculous to liken Gillard to Hitler. It would be no less ridiculous to treat Abbott, Howard or George Bush in the same fashion.
Actually it is quite clear that Pyne was referring to the film (and therefore Hitler himself) and not the parodies of it. Again, that is utterly ridiculous. But Pyne is a big lad and he can speak for and explain himself.
Hence the problem with these “minions of the left” you keen referring to. The political Left and Right both contain great diversity and a multitude of positions on scores of different issues. I’m not sure if you’re referring to someone specific, or just dreaming of an imaginary “Leftie” you can take aim at.
I don’t agree. The movie ‘Downfall’ was screened in 2004. It is unlikely that Pyne is remembering the film. Instead he is recalling, as most of us are, the many parodies made since. The parody shows a dictator out of control. Could there be a better analogy for our current government than this parody? It’s as if it was tailor-made for the downfall of the Rudd/Gillard sham of a government.
I disagree with Iain about the gender of the dictator. As with the satire of John Clarke and Brian Dawes on the ABC, it doesn’t matter whether the character resembles the target, it is the spirit of the message that is relevant.
Gillard is an out-of-control leader, now blaming everyone around her rather than taking responsibility for ousting Kevin Rudd and his fledgling government.
Witness her emotive outburst at Tony Abbott when she should have been addressing the issue of the vile behaviour of the Speaker of the House.
I can’t think of a more appropriate video to illustrate her failings than this spoof of ‘Downfall’.
This is exactly what Pyne said:
And a day later:
There is no mention or even implication that he is referring to the parodies, and it is disingenuous or just plain dishonest to suggest otherwise.
Yeah-yeah, as Bolt would say “Still Not Sorry” Pyne another one who I have marked down on my hate list.
Let’s be realistic: I’m no fan of Gillard and the sooner she’s given the same treatment she dished out to Rudd (and the sooner Rudd is reinstated) the sooner we’ll return to some form of stable government (and so long to Swan, Burke, Conroy, Garrett and all the other Gillard suckholes). BUT, the implication Pyne has made is that she is, behind the scenes, ranting and raving at her own party members. He also implies she has a screw loose and is over-emotional. Nothing could be further from the truth – Gillard is as cold as ice, almost completely unemotional and simply never loses control of herself. She’s more like Steve Waugh than Adfolf Hitler, although not as successful.
Richard, that list of yours must be pretty long care to share it?
Ray don’t confuse Gillard’s public image as some one who “completely unemotional and simply never loses control of herself.” with the her underlying ineptitude and bad judgement calls (Nova Peris any one?) because beneath that cool exterior she is just has shambolic as Hitler in his final days.
She makes bad decisions, Iain, primarily because she makes decisions based on what she sees as good for herself. Case in point – get rid of a Rudd-supporting Senator and buy the unending loyalty of some naive novice with no experience (or clue) like Paris-Kneebone. Or fly-in Bob Carr to bolster her profile. But what evidence is there of her losing it behind the scenes? There’s none whatsoever and don’t you think if she’d as much as raised her voice in anger we’d have heard about it? There’s no comparison to the freakin’ lunatic Hitler.
Ray I think that Gillard would be much more of a passive/aggressive character rather than a ranter but such people can be just as abusive and nasty as those who lose it all the time.
So she’s the opposite of Hitler? Thought so.
Ranters or passive/aggressive abusers are more the same than they are opposites IMHO Ray
Where’s the evidence of Gillard being a passive/aggressive “abuser”, Iain? In my opinion, she has never displayed such characteristics. When, how, whom? Her rant against Abbott, the “misogynist” speech? That was a planned and clever (and open) political trick, that actually worked well for her (one of her few smart moves), but you’d hardly call it passively aggressive, more like politically smart and coldly executed.
So having claimed you were just being sarcastic, Iain is still belabouring the comparison between Gillard and Hitler. They are nothing alike and have nothing in common other than the fact they are/were national leaders and made bad judgement calls. And even then it is an insult to the intelligence to compare Gillard’s decisions to those of Hitler, a destructive and genocidal madman.
Also, on what evidence do you base the view that Gillard is a “passive/aggressive ranter”? I’d be curious to know, because it sounds to me like this is confirmation bias kicking in.
My Hate List:(1) Adolf Hitler,(2) Andrew Bolt, (3)Christopher Pyne,(4) George Brandis,(5)Piers Akerman, (6)Tony Abbott, (7)Tim Blair, (8)John Howard, (9)Peter Reith, (10)Alan Jones,
That is a rather weak list Richard and that fact that you cite Hitler who has been dead for longer than you have been alive shows me that you have just made it up on the spot.
That is a hater fail in my book!
Richard forgot Sophie.
Ray That’s to be expected from you I suppose
I thought I would be on your list, Richard
I would love to know who is on Richard’s “love” list just for comparison…
Stalin, Che Guevara, Osama bin Laden etc
in Australia, Lee Rhiannon, SH-Y, Gillard, the Goose, Roxon, Bob Brown….
Don’t forget Julian Assange GD!
…and David Hicks.
If we extend the list to music, I reckon RR just loves getting’ pumped to this peppy little number:
US forces get the nod to invade the Northern Terrority—lock up your wives, snigger-snigger.
No Foreign Troops On Australian Soil.
Will the Union Jack be replaced with the Stars and Stripes, on the Aussie Flag? As Keating would say, God help us.
The sad thing about you Richard is that You really believe the left wing Memes that you sprout don’t you?
Brian
That is a pretty big similarity if you ask me Brian
Personally I would not describe Hitler as a “madman” he was clearly a driven and evil man but he was much more of an example of the banality of evil that any sort of example of insanity.
Hmm just watch enough of her interviews when she is confronted on those aforementioned dodgy decisions and you will see it.
If being the leader of a mediocre national government makes you similar to Hitler, there are an awful lot of people like Hitler getting around.
‘Evil’ is a word I prefer to leave to novelists and Bible-thumpers because I don’t think it adequately describes people like HItler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini and their ilk. Hitler was certainly deranged though, made so by a number of factors, not least of which was his drug addiction. Very few historians suggest he was of sound mind, particularly in the 1940s when his pill-popping reached new heights.
I have studied Hitler and his historiography for years and have a good idea of just how warped he was. It’s for that reason I despite the constant references to him, whenever a political leader does something unpopular or radical. I know it’s a cheap throwaway line most of the time but it’s still hogwash. And when you try to justify it (as I think you have done) then I think you do a disservice to the millions of victims of Nazism, who would have given all they had to live under Gillard instead of Hitler.
I have, and I don’t.
Brian
The similarity is just that which you yourself identified now you seem to be furiously back pedaling
I take the attitude that “evil” is more apt that “madman”. While you may not think they “Evil” is adequate to describe their murderous villainy I can see little by way of alternatives to that term.
That seems like excuse making to me especially when you consider that most of his Evil acts were conceived or began well before 1940.
Well lots of people like to invoke Satan by way of comparison when they see contemporary instances of political madness and in a secular age why is it surprising that we invoke a secular daemon like Hitler?
The dead can’t care Brian and those who survive may well consider that Gillard is an evil of a substantially lesser magnitude but that still makes her a creature of the darkness doesn’t it?
Well Maybe we both have our own confirmation biases in full swing then
I’m not back-pedalling from anything because I didn’t make the idiotic comparison in the first place.
“Evil” is a term of moral judgement, not of explanation. It’s a word for writers and God botherers. Ultimately it doesn’t tell us much. The problem with saying that World War II and the Holocaust happened because “Hitler was evil” simplifies and overlooks all the other causes and conditions that allowed these things to occur.
The Holocaust wasn’t conceived of until late 1941, Iain. As late as 1940 he was considering proposals to relocate the entire Jewish population to eastern Europe or Madagascar. As to the anti-Semitism in 1930s Germany, Hitler obviously took anti-Semitic laws to unprecedented extremes, but he neither invented Jew-hating or introduced it to Germany.
What a preposterous statement. I’ll assume you are taking the piss, because if you’re not then you’ve got serious problems with perception and perspective.
Well I’m not hopping around comparing Australian politicians to genocidal dictators, so I suspect my judgement is a bit more sound.
For the record Christopher Pyne is a Roman Catholic as was Adolf Hitler. Now top that. Shalom.
Adolph ceased being a Catholic once he became a demigod to the Nazis since he believed his own propaganda there was no way that he was going to share divinity with the Catholics, besides which he was a vegetarian and we all know that vegetarians are evil
I would not say no to a bit of human flesh myself—–I hear it is quite like pork–oink-oink.
Brian
I realise that you think that Hitler Is not apt as a comparison to Gillard and if you are using a detail brush to pain the picture you have a point but I was looking at the matters with a 4″ brush in hand.
What is wrong with making moral judgements about the Nazi Regime? Frankly I don’t think for the purposes of this discussion we need to look at the causes of WW2 or the political environment that caused and nurtured the rise of the the third Reich.
Brian as I am sure you know the Holocaust was not the only act of evil committed by the Nazis, they did lots of very reprehensible stuff, like killing the insane, homosexual, deformed and “inferior”.
The truth is that I am a great believer in sarcasm, delivered with earnest sincerity
The thing about genocidal dictators is, even with their obvious tendency for mass killing, they can still be used as a source of comparison for other aspects of the way that they govern even to compare them with Australian Pollies.
In other words, Brian lighten up, or in this case, loosen up.
No GD, comparing anyone to Hitler is a very long bow and, quite frankly, should be an instant debate loser. Godwin’s law mate.
There is nothing at all wrong with making moral judgements about anything, however moral judgements at their core simply consider whether something is right or wrong. It is more intelligent and indeed much safer to explain why something happened, rather than to attribute it to ‘good’ or ‘evil’. If you are going to compare modern politicians to Nazis then I think it is beholden on you to explain why.
Sure. But to even suggest that the ALP governs like or uses the same methods of social control of the NSDAP is either wrong or an outright lie. If they did then they’d be in a stronger position than they are now.
There is some considerable irony in a small group of people comparing an Australian PM to Adolf Hitler, then demanding that I “lighten up”. Frankly I don’t find Hitler or comparisons to him to be a joking matter.
Brian
Sorry to tell you this but the NSDP has been the butt of jokes and humour since before WW2 and Long may it be so because if we get too dour and serious about them all of the time we give them far more credibility than they deserve.
You see its human nature to make jokes about evil and those who commit it.