I have often argued here that there are some crimes for which there is only one adequate penalty . Well what could be a better case in point than the cold-blooded murder of more than 3000 people on 9-11?
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Santa he ain't (Daily Mail image)
Mohammed and his four co-accused will be brought from the controversial prison at Guantanamo Bay to face multiple charges, including murder, relating to the suicide hijackings that destroyed the Twin Towers, large parts of the Pentagon and brought a plane down in a Pennsylvania field, claiming almost 3,000 lives.
Attempting to reassure Americans that the suspected perpetrators of the worst terrorist attack in history would not walk free, President Barack Obama said: “I am absolutely convinced Khalid Sheikh Mohammed will be subject to the most exacting demands of justice.”
Eric Holder, the US attorney general, said that after reviewing the evidence he was “confident of a successful outcome”.
He added: “If I had concerns we would perhaps be in a different place.”
Stressing the emotional significance of staging the trial near the scene of the crime, he said: “After eight years of delay those allegedly responsible for the 9/11 attacks will finally face justice.”
He underlined his confidence “in the ability of our courts to provide these defendants a fair trial, just as they have for 200 years”, adding that he fully expected to direct prosecutors to seek the death penalty for these “heinous acts”.
Ok lets just go through the”anti death penalty ” check list shall we?
- Doubt about the guilt of the accused? No problem when they boast about their crimes
- The crime does not warrant a capital sanction. Hmm we are talking about 9/11 here, who would believe that one?
- The fairness of the trial process. Hmm, Well a trial in New York has to be “fairer” that a military commission in the minds of even the most froth encrusted Latte sipper… So that one is attended to.
- Any method of execution is a “cruel and unusual’ punishment. No that won’t wash. There are some crimes that actually justify the most cruel and painful end that can be imagined. By any measure 9/11 is one of them.
Well that is sorted then, bring on the trials and then bring on the executions.
Cheers Comrades
Filed under: Ethical questions, God bothering, Islam, Islamist Terror threats, Justice, Law, Political Correctness, United States, World Events, the Law | Tagged: 9 /11, 9/11, bring back the rope, Capital punishment, GUANTANAMO BAY, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Latte Lefties, London 7/7
Iain, I’m pretty sure that if this guy is found guilty of that heinous act, and if he is given the death penalty, that hardly anyone will protest it, no matter how opposed they are to capital punishment in principle.
I don’t think you can draw any conclusions from that other than to say it shows you that when emotions are their highest they always over rule reason.
I agree with you Ray, BUT there are still an inherent problems after the conclusion of the trial, if found guilty.
Alive, he is a focus for continual violence.
Dead, he becomes a martyr for the cause. Even more dangerous in some eyes ?
Hardly a win for justice is it ?
oops, sorry about that
duplicate comment removed
Doubt about the guilt of the accused? No problem when they boast about their crimes
I’ve log reminded you Iain that there have been and will be cases where ‘deluded’ people (mentally ill obviously) claim to crimes they didn’t commit.
Confession, or pleading guilty is not sufficient to guarantee no miscarriages of justice will occur.
So that strikes the death penalty out on that prinicple. If you can’t guarantee me a system without miscarriages, then no death penalty – regardless of the merits of an individual case. I’m not got too argue with you much on those other 3 points – and in any case the 1st one is a faulty premise.
(Now with the right font…)
In western justice PKD, a confession does not guarantee a guilty verdict evidence to back up that confession.
We have all seen those crazy yank cop shows, as well as in real life crime stories, how you get all sorts of crazies putting their hands up to confess. That is the reason why, there always details of the crime withheld from all public sources. These are details that only the “perps” would know.
Regardless of what criminal justice system was used PKD I doubt whether these characters would acknowledge it. Hell, they proved that, by denying the UN access all those years ago.
I think the whole argument comes down to the fact that whatever happens, the human race is the loser. That is the reason why they do it. They can inflict “collateral damage”, without too much risk. In the west, if caught, the authorities don’t know what to do with them, due to massive population outcry. As above, dammed if you do, and dammed if you don’t.
Holy cow, just noticed something, take away the beard, and the guy in the photo looks like Jamie Farr, Klinger from MASH !
Bet he needs advance bookings for that snout ?
I just want to say that I am thinking that the whole “martyr if they are executed” thing is very much overplayed by well meaning lefties quite simply because there are far to many of these nutters out there blowing themselves up and even for the truly dedicated Jihadist a few more idiots who “die for Allah” are not going to make any significant difference. It is a saturation situation .
I think that you a re very wrong PKD. Its all well and good to suggest that some mentally ill people may make a false confession because of their illness it is wrong to suggest that this is the case here.
If found guilty there will be very few people indeed who would think that the sentence was inappropriate, even among those who more generally oppose capital punishment on principle, the wound from 9/11 is just too deep and too many people in the United States believe in an atonement made in blood being the only currency that counts.
Missed the part where I said it was on principle did you iain?
I wasn’t talking about this cases merits I was talking about the principle you would create by arguing it’s ok to execute if the person confessed.
Don’t forget there are also plenty of cases of miscarriage where confessions are extracted by over zealous police.
I never suggested this particular case features people who are confessing through metial illness, so don’t try and suggest I did thanks!
Actually PKD although your comment did inform mine I was not seeking to rebut you in particular here because I do appreciate what you are saying, but with such a high profile case I think that the chances of an innocent man being convicted are very slim indeed. Also rather like the case of the Bali Bombers Kalid Sheik Mohammed has actually boasted about his crimes and when they do that it is enough for me.
PKD i am not trying to do as you suggest and extrapolate a more general justification for all capital punishment, because my position as always been that I support it when there is NO doubt of the guilt of the accused and the crime is of the most heinous variety.
As for your belief that I am being macabre about this topic , well I don’t think so But i will try and find something light and breezy for my next post so that both of you can feel warm and comfortable
I agree with you PKD, but only in a case where the only evidence available was that confession, as soon as you get other credible evidence as well as a confession I really don’t see a problem. We both know that there are very few cases indeed where the only evidence is a confession form the accused. and it certainly won’t be the case with those accused of involvement in what must rate as one of the worst crimes of this century.
Indeed, because in those cases usually the defendent claims the police coerced the confession and planted the evidence. And they still get convicted. And sometimes they get later exonerated when the police and found out.
As I said sometimes (rarely hopefully) the police can get over zealous. Therefore, no death penalty. You wouldn’t want your son executed in those circumstances…would you?
That is why good defence attorneys cost so much PKD.
If there is ever the slightest doubt, the death penalty is always taken off the table. I mean, not doubt in the criminal doing the crime, just to the extent of the crime perpetrated. The death penalty is only ever dished out, for the most heinous of crimes, and usually warranted.
As to coerced confessions, sure, it certainly happens, but one would think that again, a decent attorney would counteract that in court. It has been done successfully, and many so called “confessions” have ended up in the judicial bin.
We unfortunately, live now in a violent society, and that means, that deterrents, like the death penalty have to remain in place. I don’t like it anymore than you, but until a better system, or way is introduced, it has to stay as the ultimate deterrent, especially for crimes such as these ?
Don’t be boring and use my son as a pawn in your argument PKD, It just won’t fly twice
That said I share your concern that justice should be be done, and seen to be done, Its just that I have much more faith that the courts get it right more often than they get it wrong and really as long as there is ample opportunities for review and appeals to the higher courts I find it even less likely that a wrongful conviction will stand long enough for an innocent man to get an appointment with the gurney.