Hap has taken particular offence at my suggesting that he is “anti-Semitic” the comment below came from here but he has been ranting and raving ever since I was pressed to name some leftists who I consider to be anti-Semitic.
- But as both you and SM post under pseudonyms what difference does it make if I believe that you are both anti-Semites and I say so? If you actually believe that, then you’ve once again proven what a knuckle-dragging moron you really are.
- Look, ad hom arguments have a place in debating. If a neo-Nazi starts criticising the Israeli Government, we might have good reason to be suspicious of his/her arguments. On the other hand, my positions (and I suspect those of SM) are entirely universalist. It would be unusual for somebody to find racism in our statements. If you think you’ve found it, the onus is on you to back up your claims. As I said previously, show us a single instance of Holocause denial, or anti-Jewish bigotry, or the like.
- Of course, you won’t, as you’re a lying scumbag who’s too immature to take responsibility for his words. Instead you evade and divert. And fill up the interwebs with more blogs.
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Based on the above, I think any ad hom criticisms you receive are entirely legitimate. Until you can back up your slurs and dissembling with at least a shred of evidence, you and your pathetic attempts at bloging (sic) deserve to sit in the dunce corner of the bloggosphere (sic).
This will be my final word on this topic on this thread.
As you were .source
Before I get into Haps Post on the recent Gaza incursion I might just make a couple of simple observations about this comment
- I ask a question and he goes on as if I have made a statement, so who is the moron?
- I really do not think Haps suggestion that “holocaust denial” is a prerequisite for ‘anti-Semitism” makes any sense at all. There are plenty of anti -Semites who celebrate the holocaust and their only regret is that it did not go far enough. It is enough to show that Hap has a clear disdain and hatred for the Jews my Fisk of his post below will show that disdain and that hatred is there and barely concealed.
- I suspect that Hap really believes his own propaganda , now I may well be a bit of rogue from time to time but I have not been lying here I have just stated my honestly held opinion about an anonymous blogger
- What a convoluted piece of self justification that is
Hap claims not to be anti Semitic yet he writes this post.
I’ve been wanting to write something about this earlier, but I’m a little lost as to what to say. Again, Israel are committing atrocities against the Palestinians, and again, their apologists use every bit of sophistry at their disposal to justify it.
Any fair minded reader is going to see that “Hap” is pinning his colours to the mast from the very outset of his post. Clearly on planet Hap Nothing can justify Israel’s actions against Hamas or even its very existence.
Let us be clear – it is Israel that broke the truce. On November 4, 2008, Israel entered Gaze(sic) and killed 6 members of Hamas.
Oh and 6000 rockets launched against Israel are of no consequence? In Hap’s mind clearly not, nor does he consider them a violation of the “truce” Now anyone who was being truly fair minded would conclude that both sides were to a greater or lesser extent have seen the “truce” as being very far from absolute.
Yes, Israel has a right to self-defence. The concept of ‘self-defence’ has clearly been stretched by Israel to the point of meaningless. Context is important. For an occupied people, battling blockade, ethnic cleansing, and colonial expansion to resist by way of rocket fire is not the same as say, Iran attacking Israel. The only way to make Israel look legitimate in this conflict is to airbrush away its history of brutality.
I don’t know about anyone else but I read his paragraph as saying that Israel does not have a right to respond to the many thousands of rockets fired out of Gaza.
The guff about ethnic cleansing and occupation are just your typical Marxist nonsense. I can only conclude that in Hap’s eyes the people of Israel are in some sense lesser human beings if they are not entitled to fight back when so constantly attacked and he thinks that they are lesser people because they are Jewish.
Yes Israel may very well fail, both militarily and politically. Hamas rockets are still firing, and Israel has largely failed to draw Hamas into open areas of conflict thus far. Should the IDF enter built-up urban zones, both they and the Palestinians will likely suffer massive casualties.
Now that Israel has withdrawn from its Gaza incursion it is clear that Hap’s prediction has NOT been fulfilled: 1300 dead are claimed but there is some suggestion that this number has been grossly inflated :
The Mystery Dead Of Gaza
January 25, 2009: Palestinians have found, in their decades of fighting Israel, that well crafted lies can be an effective weapon. The recent 22 day battle in Gaza, between Hamas and Israel, ended with the Palestinians claiming they had lost 1,300 dead, and the Israelis admitting to 13 (including four soldiers from friendly fire.) Now, as reporters get into Gaza, and start asking questions, the Palestinian death toll is starting to shrink. Medical personnel at the Palestinian hospitals say that there appeared to be no more than about 500 dead, and most of them were young males (guys of fighting age). Civilian dead appear to have been no more than a hundred or so.
source
Whichever figure it is hardly the massive number that Hap was dreaming about now is it?
When you consider that the Gaza population is what 1.4 million. So even the highest number claimed is a truly small percentage of the population. However If the report that I cite is correct about both the number and the Demographics of the dead then Haps attempts use the “victim hood of the Palestinian people” card falls very flat indeed.
Should Israel fail in its latest military adventure, it is likely that the rightists will take over at the next election. In addition, Hamas will probably see a rise in domestic support, and Iran may well vote in the conservatives.
Does this chap like to draw a long bow or what?
The only possible political victory that may emerge from this conflict is if the people of Egypt use it as a catalyst to oust the US-proxy neoliberal dictatorship in Egypt. Israel have clearly been targeting civilians* and civilian areas, as they did in Lebanon in 2006.
Targeting civilians!!!!???????
Hap must believe his own propaganda. As I pointed out elsewhere this is a spurious argument for two very simple reasons , firstly there is nothing to be gained by Israel targeting those who are actual civilians , the propaganda negatives alone are evident enough from the reactions when the IDF accidentally kills Palestinian civilians . Secondly if the IDF really wanted to massacre the Palestinian people it has more than enough capability to do just that and the death toll from military actions would be in the hundreds of thousands, not somewhere between 5 and 13 hundred.Finally if the IDF were “targeting civilians” the why do we here the reports about the IDF dropping leaflets and the sending of sms messages warning of impending attacks on Hamas targets. There can only be one reason that Hap runs this line and that is to blacken the Jewish side of this conflict.
Naturally, IDF spokespeople justify the carnage by alleging that every dead civilian is a terrorist.
No they do not. They are quite up front that some of the dead are civilians and I bet that if it were possible that no civilians would be killed that the IDF would chose such an option. Hap wants to pretend that none of the dead are Hamas fighters because then it is easier to portray the IDF as “evil” which is consistent with his views about the Jews in general.
Israel could have negotiated with Hamas, and have done so before. The alleged failure of Hamas to ‘recognise’ the state of Israel is purely symbolic.There is no recognition of Palestinian statehood by the Israeli government, so any lack of reciprocal recognition by Hamas is a moot point. When I have debated these issues on rightist sites, I have very quickly been accused of ‘anti-Semitism’, as if Arabs were not also Semites. This smear is fairly common on the right.
How so is it “purely symbolic”? because Hamas ‘s Charter not only fails to recognise the existence of Israel but calls for its destruction…
I am amused that Hap tries the semantic excuse for his anti-Semitism. Everyone knows that saying you can’t be an anti-Semite if you love the Palestinians (because they too are a Semitic people) is a nonsense of the highest order, the term first and foremost refers to hating or despising the Jews which Hap certainly demonstrates quite often.
The recent Melbourne demonstration can be viewed on You Tube, for instance. I saw no evidence of anti-Semitism at this demo, yet the right-wing blog Little Green Footballs pieced together a slideshow of alleged anti-Semitism at the event. Obviously, the charge of anti-Semitism is baseless, particularly when plenty of Israelis, and Jews worldwide, oppose the current slaughter.
Actually I think that Nilk’s photos like this one

As we can see, this sign was rather popular for the photographers. Child in hijab, mother in niqab. I spoke to a policeman about this sign, but by the time I got him here to show him, the sign had been damaged. He said the crowd wouldn't support her message anyway, and I disagreed. No way a crowd shouting "allahu akhbar" is going to disagree with this woman. (Nilk)
show how one eyed Hap is about the demonstration and if he considers this is not an example of anti-Semitism then why should I be surprised by his vehement denials of his own feelings about the Jews? But I just delight in the absurdity of his logic here: Because there are Jews who disagree with the actions of the Israeli government so there can be NO anti-Semitism at a rally of mostly Muslim supporters of the Palestinians in Melbourne . It is a total non-sequitur
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For what it is worth, the IDF’s latest actions are to be condemned as yet further collective punishment against one of the world’s most oppressed peoples. When Israel’s relationship to the Palestinians is one of oppressor-oppressed, claims of ‘self-defence’ are utterly disingenuous. On one point, at least, the rightists are correct – there can be no moral equivalence in this war, given that one side is starving, bombing, shooting, colonising and blockading the other.
Really? You have to ask just who is the coloniser in the land between the river Jordan and the sea? Which is a point that I have pressed a number of times. This area is one of the most contested pieces of dirt on the planet. But in Hap’s world view the Israeli attachment to and claim on the land has no validity whatsoever, even though their is perhaps the most ancient and long-standing claim of any of the people that currently lay claim to the dirt there. Thus it is easy for him to portray the conflict as a simple oppressor /oppressed dichotomy and paint every thing done by Israelis to protect her citizens as evil acts. There is NO balance at all in his commentary here not one concession that the Palestinians in general or Hamas in particular have acted in an unacceptable manner in they way that they have prosecuted their “struggle”. I see this one-sidedness as evidence of his dislike of the Jews in general and the state of Israel in particular.
Universal moral principles seemingly do not apply when commentators discuss the Palestinians. As per a previous post, it is as if the rightist defenders of Zionism have appropriated postmodern discourses on identity politics to justify Israel’s moral exceptionalism.
Now I could not find the previous post alluded to here So I just have to ask just what are the “universal moral principles” that Hap is on about here? Hap is very fond of such grandiose statements that are self-referential (without citing the reference) and essentially say nothing The only universal principle that comes to mind here for me is a nation state’s right to defend itself with deadly force when attacked.
I have wondered aloud elsewhere whether these apologists would be so quick to defend the actions of, for example, a homosexual or Roma state. None of this should be interpreted as ‘support’ for Hamas, though Hamas, like everybody else, has the right to defend itself. Religion can be incidental to liberation politics, but I see no reason to believe that religion alone, in the absence of a liberation agenda, can free the Palestinians in a political sense.
“No but , Yeah but” But, Here we have Hap pulling out the old Vicky Pollard argument strategy. He wants to pretend that religion is not a big part of the issues in the Israel/ Palestine conflict because then he can pretend that this is just a simple political power struggle and disguise his own disdain for the Jews.
There is a wealth of information available on the internet, and the links are coming too quickly for me to list all of them. I personally recommend that all interested readers take a look at the writings of Richard Seymour and the much-maligned Robert Fisk. On a positive note, the level of protest around the world has been heartening. The first goal must be an immediate ceasefire, preferably not on Israel’s terms.
The first reference that Hap cites here is not doing him any favours at all when it comes to presenting himself and NOT being an anti-Semite the blog post he links to is making the same argument that Hap makes, suggesting that Israel is not entitled to respond to the rockets from Gaza and it is illustrated with this picture:
Richard Seymour is doing nothing more than providing explicit support for the Hamas Terrorists who would happily see every Jew in Israel exterminated. He to is a fine example of the way that the left couch their anti-Semitism in terms of “anti Zionism” and Hap’s endorsement of this chaps arguments is yet another piece of evidence of his own feelings towards the Jews.
Secondly, there must be negotiations between the Israeli government and Hamas, at least insofar as this latter group are still the elected representatives of Gazans. Finally, a universalist one-state solution is the terminus ad quem to which efforts should be directed. I realise that this is a long way off, but, short of purging the Middle East of Palestinians, Israel will have to contemplate this solution as some stage. May there be peace and freedom for Palestinians soon, and may all honest men and women from all sides of political discourse express their solidarity with an oppressed and brutalised peoples.
To be fair to Hap he does begin with and entitle his post with the claim that this is just “some thoughts” about the conflict and I think to some extent he has not structured this post as a narrative that is intended to make liner and logical argument but In doing so he has made his feelings about the Jews so much more clear.
No where in the post is there even the slightest concession that the Jews in Israel are entitled to live in peace on their own terms. His suggestion in the conclusion that “a universalist one-state solution is the terminus ad quem” is a call fro the dissolution of the state of Israel and teh subjugation of the Jews under the heal of Muslim majority government (given demographic trends) of the sort that no Jew could ever trust to protect their lives, dignity or their civil rights. This blind and willfull indifference to the people on the Israeli side of the conflict is in itself evidence of Hap’s underlying anti-Semitism.
Conclusion
I have spent a fair bit of time here and I know that Hap is very unlikely to agree with either my logic or my conclusion. He is clearly in denial about his own feelings which is consistent with so many other leftists.
In short Hap is an anti Semite because:
(in no particular order)
He refuses to acknowledge that Jews in Israel should not be subject to attack from Hamas rockets. In fact he supports such attacks.
He calls for the destruction of the state of Israel which would mean that the Jews there would either be killed or “driven into the sea”.
He hides behind semantics of the term “Semite”
He unquestionably accepts the worst case examples in all sources when it comes to the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. he does not even have the semblance of a balanced consideration of the issues.
He creates the ridiculous straw man argument that an ‘anti- Semite” has to “deny the holocaust” just so the definition excludes him.
I want re-iterate what I said in the same thread as the comment I opened this post with I can not for life of me see what difference it makes if I believe that Hap or any other Leftard for that matter is and anti-Semite and I say so, especially if that person is writing under a pseudonym they can not in any sense “Hurt”by my belief or me saying it openly.
Finally given the fact that Hap hacked my email and blogging accounts last year for the most malicious reasons it is the hight of hypocrisy for him to seek to justify his rancour on the basis of my internet behaviour when his own is nothing short of despicable.
Forgive him comrades, because he is but a poor deluded Marxist who believes that the ends justifies the means.
We more moral individuals reject such a notion out of hand.
Cheers Comrades
8)