The man who should be our next Australian of the year, Noel Pearson, continues to speak much good sense as reported in today’s Oz.
“Speaking to cheering crowds in Glebe and Fitzroy and West End in Brisbane might make indigenous leaders feel good,” Mr Pearson said. “But you’ve got to do the hard yards with the hard people.”
Finding common ground with people on the political Right was vital, he said, adding that there was a “fundamental decency” within everyone.
Mr Pearson said the optimism and success of the Jewish community to secure a future after the Holocaust had given him great insight. He said Melbourne’s Jewish community had shown him it was possible “to be victimised but not to become a victim”, adding that the Jews had never forgotten or denied their history but had been able to continue and to thrive despite it. “This is what we have to do, to wake up and realise we are the guarantors of our destiny.”
He recalled meeting the late Ron Castan QC, a civil libertarian and prominent member of Melbourne’s Jewish community who died in 1999.
In 1998, Castan connected Mr Pearson with conservative and right-wing thinkers so there could be a greater understanding of Aboriginal issues. This allowed Mr Pearson an insight into the potential for compassion and action among the political Right.
“The starting place must be ourselves,” he said. “The history of indigenous families tells us that the whole history of Aboriginal survival is not a history of government handouts.”
So perhaps it is the anti-Semitism that is so endemic amongst the left that is sustaining their arguments, which are preventing our indigenous brothers and sisters from getting out of the hole that they are currently in. There has been far to much whining about the events of the past, which can not be changed, and not enough focus on the possibilities of the future which can be made to happen with a bit of determination. But as I have been saying forever, like the post war Jews, Indigenous people will only really get out of the dire circumstance they are in by doing it themselves.
Filed under: Education, Indigenous Issues | Tagged: history wars
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“Indigenous people will only really get out of the dire circumstance they are in by doing it themselves.”
Agreed, and the belief in the above statement is why many have baulked at the non-consultative, top-down approach of the Intervention.
“So perhaps it is the anti-Semitism that is so endemic amongst the left that is sustaining their arguments, which are preventing our indigenous brothers and sisters from getting out of the hole that they are currently in.”
That is a very sick and twisted argument Iain. How is the Left anti-semitic?
Wamut
The intervention may not be perfect and it may well cause some very big changes but surely change is what is actually needed. The reality is that there has not been the will or the imagination at the indigenous grass roots to fix these problems or they would have been sorted a long time ago.
SM
Given the support, implicit, tacit and overt that has been made for every manner of anti-Israel pro Palestinian group or cause from so many minions of the left, it is no stretch at all to suggest that this derives from a deep seated anti-Semitism.
“…it is no stretch at all to suggest that this derives from a deep seated anti-Semitism.”
It is indeed a stretch, particularly when the Left is and historically has been at the forefront of opposition to racism of all kinds, including anti-semitism.
I suspect that you are confusing anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. I also suspect this confusion is not accidental. It is a transparent attempt by apologists of the apartheid state of Israel to silence critics, both Jewish and Gentile, by equating criticism of the state’s actions with a criticism of all Jews.
In a sense this tactic is anti-Semitic itself, as it would seem to lump all Jews together in an undifferentiated mass, equating their religion/culture with the policies of a particular government and thus allowing them no agency of their own.
Don’t be ridiculous, Iain. Saying that people of a political leaning are anti-Semitic because they criticise the government of Israel is like saying you are racist because you criticise Robert Mugabe.
Gentlemen
The worst and most blatant anti-Semites are the Palestinians and their Islamic supporters; their hatred is not confined to the state of Israel it includes all Jews. Thus if these people are offered support by memebers of the left then those lefties are clearly supporting anti-Semitism.
True, but I’ll assume that you don’t believe that any lefty who believes an injustice has occured in Palestine is guilty, by association, of anti-Semitism.
Iain, if Western conservatives are unable to distinguish between the Israeli state and the Jewish people in general, is it surprising that the victims of the violence meted out by a state that openly claims to action on behalf of all Jews, are also perhaps given to anti-Semitism?
Certainly not MM, there are some lefties who try very hard to make the distinction and there are also many who offer only lip service to the difference between the state of Israel and Jews in general to cover the evil in their hearts.
SM
The land Of Israel has been contested for thousands of years. Just where do you draw the line on historical claims to the land? The usual reasoning from the left makes valid the oldest claim to the real estate in question. Thus the left in general should (according to its logic) be supporting the Jewish claim to the land west of the Jordan River. Strangely they work hard to do otherwise.
Iain, as far as I am aware Palestine has been occupied by both Arabs and Jews for thousands of years.
However regardless of the historical claims of the inhabitants, my support for the Palestinian cause is based on social justice, an opposition to states based on ethnic cleansing and apartheid and imperialism.
As for the “evil in my heart”, I’m sure my Jewish friends would be surprised to hear about it. And no doubt I was seriously deluded the times I’ve risked violence and arrest demonstrating against Neo-Nazis…
SM I did not cite you personally as some one who only pays lip service to the distinction. Saddened that you put your self in that category though…
Thus if these people are offered support by memebers of the left then those lefties are clearly supporting anti-Semitism.
…
That kind of devious logic might apply if you’re only able to consider issues one-dimensionally. It’s quite possible to support a cause and not the ideologies that others use to justify the same cause. I believe that the Palestinians are entitled to an independent state – but I do not support their terrorism against civilians, just as I supported the IRA but didn’t support their terrorism and murder.
Sorry, that should be “just as I supported Irish nationalism but didn’t support the IRA and their terrorism and murder”. Since much of the IRA’s funding came out of Boston, I reckon many Irish-Americans couldn’t have cared less what methods they used.
to Suburban Marxist:
“How is the Left anti-semitic?”
Theme is actually closed by littlegreenfootballs with posting The Protocols of the Daily Kos. Did you read it?
here is the portion :http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=25707_The_Protocols_of_the_Daily_Kos&only
No 2008voter, I don’t make a regular habit of reading LGF, just as I try to avoid Stormfront or Mein Kampf.
to: Suburban Marxist
“I don’t make a regular habit of reading LGF, just as I try to avoid Stormfront or Mein Kampf.”
Why is that ? Mein Kampf was written by National socialist you should read all socialists literature if you are real Marxist.if you would read for example program of National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP) you would find a lot of commonalities between socialism/ Marxism and fascisms. Or may be you are not reading anything but Lenin and Marx?? Good for you then : Ignorance is blessing !
Indeed, do not read anything what is not a marxism , becuse it will hurt your feelings:)
but what LGF has to do with Mein Kampf anyway ?
“…if you would read for example program of National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP) you would find a lot of commonalities between socialism/ Marxism and fascisms.”
I doubt it very much 2008 and I believe Adolph would have agreed with me, or else his party’s years of brutal street warfare against the Left and his elimination of the German Communist and Labor parties on his accession to power was something of a waste of time, no?
But hey, don’t take my word for it, what does Alan Bullock, author of the work ‘Hitler: A Study in Tyranny’, abridged edition, (New York: HarperCollins, 1971) say…
“While Hitler’s attitude towards liberalism was one of contempt, towards Marxism he showed an implacable hostility… Ignoring the profound differences between Communism and Social Democracy in practice and the bitter hostility between the rival working class parties, he saw in their common ideology the embodiment of all that he detested — mass democracy and a leveling egalitarianism as opposed to the authoritarian state and the rule of an elite; equality and friendship among peoples as opposed to racial inequality and the domination of the strong; class solidarity versus national unity; internationalism versus nationalism.”
Indeed, why stop at secondary sources, let’s take a look at what the man himself said, “The main plank in the Nationalist Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute for them the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood.”
“Ignorance is blessing !”
Would that be why you read LGF?
Voter :“…if you would read for example program of National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP) you would find a lot of commonalities between socialism/ Marxism and fascisms.”
Marxist: I doubt it very much
1.
I know you doubt it , but it does not make it less reality as it is. The main motto of Hitler’s party was the COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD . Sounds like a Dennis Kucinich to me ! It is pure, classical socialism!!! Sounds like a good slogan for Hillary Clinton ! Am I wrong??
Look through selections from the NSDAP program below ( which are essentially more that 50% of the program itself ) :
• That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.
• The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.
• Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
• We demand the nationalization of all trusts.
• We demand profit-sharing in large industries
• We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.
• We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.
This is my favorite: I dedicate this particular excerpt to Michael Moore and to Hillary Clinton ( form me personally) :
• The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/nsdappro.htm
Now I challenge you to tell me which aspects from listed above articles from NSDAP program , Hitler’s party are not socialists by nature?
2.
About your quote:
First of all it proves nothing.
The fact that fascist and communists hated each other does not prove that they were that much different . Radical socialists always were fighting with each other. The fact: Stalin killed Trotzki. So what ? Does it make at least one of them less of Marxist?
The fact: USSR did fight with Mao . So what ?, Does it mean that one of them was not a Marxist state ?
The fact that one radical socialist fraction ( fascism ) hates and rejects another radical socialist fraction ( Marxism) means nothing. All radical socialsist fractions did reject each other . Fascism and Communism both grew from the same core : socialism ( read the program above ). They both bloody radicals who killed millions
Besides in late 30 was a period when Hitler and Stalin were allies
3.
I still do not understand how you managed to link LGF with fascism? If everything above is true Daily Kos ( radical socialists) are obviously closer to fascism and if I am wrong in anything above please let me know what is wrong
I’ll keep my reply brief 2008, as I really don’t have time to indulge lunacy such as yours.
I would agree that on the face of it some of those demands appear to be left-wing. However, you need to keep in mind that the benefits of all this economic collectivism were to be shared only with the ‘volk’, racially pure Germans. The Nazi economic program was designed to benefit Aryans, and non-Aryan German citizens were to be excluded. This is antithetical to genuine socialism, which is fundamentally anti-racist.
As Trotsky, commenting on the nature of Nazism, said: “In order to raise it above history, the nation is given the support of the race. History is viewed as the emanation of the race. The qualities of the race are construed without relation to changing social conditions. Rejecting “economic thought” as base, National Socialism descends a stage lower: from economic materialism it appeals to zoologic materialism.”
Also, Marxists certainly don’t, “• [...] demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class,….”.
In fact that demand of the program is interesting in that it demonstrates quite dramatically the differences in economic program between fascism and Marxism. Being based primarily in the middle-classes who were being ruined by the Depression and squeezed on the one side by the unions and on the other by big business, Nazi economic doctrine sought to establish a nation of artisans… i.e. small business owners. The irony being that for some time before he took power Hitler was being backed by that very same big business and the collectivist demands of the NSDAP program where swiftly swept under the carpet once he became chancellor.
“The fact: Stalin killed Trotzki. So what ? Does it make at least one of them less of Marxist?”
Stalin killed Trotsky because the latter WAS a genuine Marxist.
“The fact: USSR did fight with Mao . So what ?, Does it mean that one of them was not a Marxist state ?”
Neither were a ‘Marxist’ state. The Soviet Union came closest in the period between 1917-1928, before Stalin’s counter-revolution. China was never a genuinely socialist nation, it was Stalinist from day one.
“The fact that one radical socialist fraction ( fascism ) hates and rejects another radical socialist fraction (Marxism) means nothing.”
Okay, so would you agree that it makes no difference how bitterly the US Republicans and Democrats denounce each other, the are both capitalist parties?
“Besides in late 30 was a period when Hitler and Stalin were allies.”
Indeed, and so were the US and Iraq, what is your point?
“if I am wrong in anything above please let me know what is wrong.”
You are wrong in almost EVERYTHING you say 2008, I have briefly tried to set you straight. If you think Daily Kos is run by socialists, let alone radicals…and you can’t see elements of fascism in LGF there is little hope for you politically…
I really don’t have time to indulge lunacy such as yours
Now I believe that you are genuine Marxist
“the benefits of all this economic collectivism were to be shared only with the ‘volk’, racially pure Germans. The Nazi economic program was designed to benefit Aryans, and non-Aryan German citizens were to be excluded. “
FYI: In communists society same way as in fascists society not everybody were entitled for benefits of wealth
In communists society only proletariat was entitled for these benefits and other classes had to be either exterminated ( what was successfully done in Russia and China) or subdued . Difference between fascism (national socialism) and communism ( class oriented socialism) only in the criteria of who has to be exterminated . In both , fascists and communists state was only selected part of society which they considered to be superior to others : proletariat for communists , German race for Nazis. Others had to be either exterminated of to be inferior. Same formula for both.
“As Trotsky, commenting”
Hey, Trotsky means for you something as Hitler means something for white supremacists but neither of them mean anything to me. So, do not cite Trotsky as an authority in anything other than mass killings . One more time again: no radicals love each other. Thus, fascist and communists did not like each other either. It proves nothing
“Nazi economic doctrine sought to establish a nation of artisans… i.e. small business owners.”
)
Did you ever heard about Lenin’s New Economic Policy (NEP)?
Educate yourself:
It was a politic of communists to build a class of small business owners. According to encyclopedia Britannica it was happening exactly in the period of time that you consider ( is it not ironic? ) a real communism from 1921 to 1928
“the economic policy of the government of the Soviet Union from 1921 to 1928, representing a temporary retreat from its previous policy of extreme centralization and doctrinaire socialism. …To forestall disaster, Lenin instituted the New Economic Policy (NEP), which amounted to a partial restoration of capitalism, especially in retail trade, small-scale production, and agriculture ”
http://www.britannica.com/eb/topic-411387/New-Economic-Policy
so ,at that time communist (as fascists did later on) were committed “to establish a nation of artisans… i.e. small business owners.”
again, no difference between fascism and communism (other than you committed to communism
“Stalin killed Trotsky because the latter WAS a genuine Marxist.”
You marxists know better who was a genuine who was not. I bet that there are nazi who consider Hitler not a genuine nazi either. I will leave to sort it out to you guys. You know better “ who is who” in your world . but it is undeniable fact that Trotsky was a bloody mass murderer and failed dictator . he did fight with Stalin for dictatorship and he lost. Stalin won. One bloody killer was killed by another bloody killer.
“The Soviet Union came closest in the period between 1917-1928, before Stalin’s counter-revolution.”
Let us see what happened in Russia during 1917-1928 :
1.wealthy peasants ( kulaks) were exterminated,
2. Kazaks were exterminated as a nation
3. Russian nobles were exterminated as a social class
4. concentration camps were invented and implemented
5. system of Gulag was invented and in implemented
6. churches were destroyed and priests were killed in mass proportions.
Did you ever read Gulag Archipelago?
buy the way period of 1918-1921 was a period of civil war and military communism. How close they can be to socialism at that time?
“Okay, so would you agree that it makes no difference how bitterly the US Republicans and Democrats denounce each other, the are both capitalist parties?”
If Parties are hating each other it does not make they are different, but it does not make them similar either, it just proves nothing. Political nature of parties has to be analyzed based not on rhetoric but based on programs. This is why I am challenging you one more time again to tell me which aspects from listed in previous posting articles from NSDAP program , are not socialists by nature
“and you can’t see elements of fascism in LGF there is little hope for you politically…”
Do not so pessimistic yet:) , not everybody have to be Marxists after all. Just show me elements of fascism on LGF… if you can of course
I really don’t have time to indulge lunacy such as yours
Now I believe that you are genuine Marxist
“the benefits of all this economic collectivism were to be shared only with the ‘volk’, racially pure Germans. The Nazi economic program was designed to benefit Aryans, and non-Aryan German citizens were to be excluded. “
FYI: In communists society same way as in fascists society not everybody were entitled for benefits of wealth
In communists society only proletariat was entitled for economic benefits and other classes had to be wither exterminated ( what was successfully done in Russia and China) or subdued . Difference between fascism (national socialism) and communism ( class oriented socialism) only in the criteria who has to be exterminated . In both , fascists and communists state was only selected part of society which they considered to be superior to others : proletariat for communists , German race for Nazis. Others had to be either exterminated of to be inferior. Same formula .
“As Trotsky, commenting”
Hey, Trotsky means for you something as Hitler means something for KKK but neither of them mean anything to me. So, do not cite Trotsky as an authority in anything other than mass killings . But one more time again: no radicals love each other. Thus fascist and communists did not like each other either.
“Nazi economic doctrine sought to establish a nation of artisans… i.e. small business owners.”
Did you ever heard about Lenin’s New Economic Policy (NEP)?
Educate yourself:
It was a politic of communists to build a class of small business owners. According to encyclopedia Britannica it was happening exactly in the period of time that you consider ( is it not ironic? ) a real communism from 1921 to 1928
“the economic policy of the government of the Soviet Union from 1921 to 1928, representing a temporary retreat from its previous policy of extreme centralization and doctrinaire socialism. …To forestall disaster, Lenin instituted the New Economic Policy (NEP), which amounted to a partial restoration of capitalism, especially in retail trade, small-scale production, and agriculture ”
http://www.britannica.com/eb/topic-411387/New-Economic-Policy
so ,at that time communist as fascists later on were committed “to establish a nation of artisans… i.e. small business owners.”
again no difference between fascism and communism (other than you like communism better : ))
“Stalin killed Trotsky because the latter WAS a genuine Marxist.”
You marxists know better who was a genuine who was not. I bet that there are nazi who consider Hitler not genuine either nazi. I will leave to sort it out to you guys. You know better “ who is who” in your world . but it is undeniable fact that Trotsky was a bloody mass murderer and failed dictator . he did fight with Stalin for dictatorship and he lost Stalin won. One bloody killer was killed by another bloody killer.
“The Soviet Union came closest in the period between 1917-1928, before Stalin’s counter-revolution.”
Let us see what happened in Russia during 1917-1928 :
1.wealthy peasants ( kulaks) were exterminated,
2. Kazaks were exterminated as a nation
3. Russian nobles were exterminated as a social class
4. concentration camps were invented and implemented
5. system of Gulag was invented and in implemented
6. churches were destroyed and priests were killed in mass proportions.
Did you ever read Gulag Archipelago?
Besides 1918-1921 is a period of bloody civil war and what they called “ military communisms” how could they be close to socialism at that time?
“Okay, so would you agree that it makes no difference how bitterly the US Republicans and Democrats denounce each other, the are both capitalist parties?”
If Parties are hating each other it does not make them different, but it does not make them similar either, it just proves nothing. Political nature of parties has to be analyzed based not on rhetoric but based on programs. This is why I am challenging you one time again to tell me which aspects from listed in previous posting articles from NSDAP program , are not socialists by nature?
“and you can’t see elements of fascism in LGF there is little hope for you politically…”
Do not so pessimistic yet , not everybody have to be Marxists after all. Just show me elements of fascism on LGF… if you can of course